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-   -   Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe (http://zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26730)

Tripler 07-18-2016 08:30 AM

Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe
 
When in Bowling Green this summer I had the opportunity to take our 1995 ZR-1 out on the BG test track and it was an amazing time . I had real problem though . I was unable to toe/heel in this C4 tho I had no issues in Mark's 620hp modded Zr-1 C4 . I had raced in a C4 more than 20 years ago in the Escort Endurance series and from what I remember I had no issues with toe/heel . What I found a few weeks later was that I had the wrong footwear . This is a very important step when doing T/H . For one thing I never wore a street shoe when racing as they were a Nomex Boot made of a flame proof material and also very pliable with easy movement . Toe/heel is used when you are slowing the car down and downshifting into the next lower gear while also braking smoothly .Recently someone asked my as to why one would toe T/H at all . Well there a few reasons as to why we would , especially in the LT-5 or any standard transmission or engine type for that matter .
First reason being smooth downshifts with very little stress on the drive train . When I raced cars years ago and during pit stops , the crew rarely if ever had to change the break pads when I was driving the car . Reason being that I was very gentle with my breaking and very light footed and that I was also using engine breaking to some point and of course sliding the car slightly to reduce speed coming into a corner . Afore mentioned are difficult skills to learn but with practice they can be mastered but most importantly learning T/H will be your first step into really enjoying a standard transmission in any car , especially the LT5 .

Secondly with the LT5 having all those extra cams up front (wow) when blipping the throttle to my thinking ,is that the oil will rise up to lubricate those 4 beauty's spinning like whirl winds and the intake/exhaust valves hopping up and down like a rabbit on hot coals inside that awesome engine . I recently learned that in my 2003 Concours motorcycle engine
( a double over head cam detuned 1000cc Ninja Motor) that you should keep the revs above 3000 rpm to keep the oil moving to lubricate the cams and valves . Lower rpm's such as long idling are not recommended . So throttle blipping on a motorcycle comes into play here and for good reason . I also thought that that principal would probably apply to the LT5 as well . Ever hear cars or bikes at the racetrack ? What are they doing when the are sitting to be gridded or even just moving to be lined up for a race ? Blipping the throttle ...Irritating as hell actually but it makes sense now .

And thirdly the satisfaction that you are driving this car the way it was meant to be driven . It is not your typical go to the store and get milk car tho you can use it a such . It is meant to be treated as it was designed . A high performance super car which it most certainly is .
Also while in Bowling Green a few of the other ZR-1 car owners were asking me about T/H as they were also having difficulty's with this process . I will be making an instructional video with the help of my daughter who just finished a 3 year stint at college and passed with flying colors in the Media, Arts/Broadcasting program . Right now one of the short films she has worked on will be shown here at TIFF here in TO .
Anyway I digress . I would also like to see a few response on this topic as to why you toe heel or why you do not toe heel .
Do you find it too difficult ?
Do you think you are harming the car ?
Do you think it is a silly process and is not required ?


Personally I find it to be most rewarding when I can get all that power slowed down smoothly and efficiently exactly as it would be done on the race track .

PS ,,, I have toe heeled every car I have owned , cars and bikes , with a standard transmission since I was a kid and never broke a vehicle in anyway and with less wear on the vehicle from the drive train , breaks , wheels , suspension , motor ...

Tripler

;) ;) ;)

XfireZ51 07-18-2016 08:47 AM

Re: Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe
 
Have always wanted to learn how to do this. Whenever I have attempted this, I just find that maintaining my leg/foot in that position is a bit difficult. Perhaps I am missing something. Look forward to the video.

Paul Workman 07-18-2016 09:22 AM

Re: Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe
 
I'm with Dom. I'm aware (and in awe!) of the technique, but never tutored in its execution! Willing to learn tho!!

RussMcB 07-18-2016 09:51 AM

Re: Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe
 
A few thoughts ...

To me, the importance of heel/toe is to prevent loss of traction in the rear while braking/downshifting. If you are on the edge of adhesion, you do not want any abrupt, new force on the rear tires.

A reminder: Downshifting while braking is not to help slow the car. Slowing the car is done 100% with the brakes. The only reason to downshift during braking is to make sure you are in the right gear for accelerating after corner turn-in.

I think heel/toe is fun, and it becomes habit (like everything) with practice. It is difficult, maybe impossible with some pedals. In my '91 I am able to heel/toe when needed. I rarely do it on the street because I am never braking on the limit, even at places like Tail of the Dragon.

Although it is called Heel/Toe, more often than not it is actually using the outside of the foot for gas, and the ball of the foot for braking. The braking is the crucial part. The throttle blip does not need to be as perfect.

Tripler 07-18-2016 11:40 AM

Re: Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe
 
Practice on the street is quite easy . Just break later and do T/H . I do it all the time . Once you get to the track or a slalom , you will already know how to do it and it will be second nature and you won't even have to think about it . Practice is the key here and yes , you can do it easily on the street even if it is only from 4th to 3rd which is the easiest to start out with . Leave lot's of space and distance around other vehicles and you will be fine . A parking lot also is a good place to start .

True all breaking on the track or street should be done in a straight line but every now and then , the help of the engine can come into play if done correctly and should only be attempted if you know how to do it . As Russ said , if done incorrectly , you will get rear wheel lock up or axle hop and under heavy breaking , the rear of the car will become lite and breaking adhesion will be at a minimum but still usable in some instances . You will not have this issue while street driving unless you are hammering the car lol . I have many Championships and Wins under my belt from my younger days so I do have a lot of experience in this matter . I was a very fast guy back in the day ... Now , not so much of course .
I have watched some of you guys drive your cars and I was very impressed but I also saw a lot of people struggling to get all those moves done correctly . Practice is the only word of advice I can offer at this point .
First off try and learn and understand the principals of how T/H works . Other than for learning a new skill or having a smoother ride in the car or just plain fun to listen to that LT5 hum along .Practice rev matching while down shifting and don't worry about the foot breaking part . For instance I drive my car at 40 mph in 4th gear . Depress the clutch and blip the throttle and reach down and shift from 4th to 3rd . I always have my hands on the wheel and once the shift is done , my right hand goes right back to were it was . If you do it correctly , the shift will feel like butter and the car will not jerk or lurch . If it is lurching or chugging then add a larger blip to the pedal and try again . It will not have to be a heavy blip to the throttle or high revs . Don't be staring at your tach , listen to the motor and feel how smooth the shift goes . Practice until you get smooth at that , then once you are proficient in that part of the learning curve , begin trying the foot breaking process along with the blip of the throttle .
Again practice this in a safe location or in light traffic with lot's of distance from other vehicles . I do not want anyone bending there car or hurting themselves during T/H practice .

Once I have the vid completed it will become more clear to you . Also next year at BG I can give some quick tutoring to anyone who is interested . I am very happy to pass on the skills I acquired racing so many years ago ... Also if some of you guys that already know T/H could help with some tutoring at BG next year that would be greatly appreciated to the new guys to this process .
Also footwear is paramount . The runners I wore at BG had a huge side step sticking out and made T/H a real pita ... Better shoes made all the difference . I ended up just blipping and breaking after the shift whilst at the BG track until I got into Marks 620 car which had pro pedals set up for racing and man I wish all the C4's had that pedal setup in Mark's car . What a sweet ride that beast is ...

;)

dredgeguy 07-18-2016 04:28 PM

Re: Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe
 
Wow, can't wait to learn but just a warning, size 11.5 EEE width. With big foot can clutch, break and hit the throttle all at once!:-D

RussMcB 07-18-2016 04:31 PM

Re: Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dredgeguy (Post 245240)
Wow, can't wait to learn but just a warning, size 11.5 EEE width. With big foot can clutch, break and hit the throttle all at once!:-D

That's funny.

And if it was a 60's-70's car, you could hit the dimmer switch, too! :-)

LGAFF 07-18-2016 05:24 PM

Re: Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dredgeguy (Post 245240)
Wow, can't wait to learn but just a warning, size 11.5 EEE width. With big foot can clutch, break and hit the throttle all at once!:-D

Try it with a 15/16:)

Fully Vetted 07-18-2016 06:23 PM

Re: Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe
 
While I've done it in other cars I've always found the C4 foot well a little tight for this maneuver. If you guys are doing it with no problem it must be the wrong footwear.

BigJohn 07-18-2016 06:27 PM

Re: Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dredgeguy (Post 245240)
Wow, can't wait to learn but just a warning, size 11.5 EEE width. With big foot can clutch, break and hit the throttle all at once!:-D

I have the same problem, especially with the Modern tennis shoes!


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