"Block Learn" vs. "Intergrator Value"?

[Paul Workman]

Originally Posted by GOLDCYLON

Paul what am I doing wrong lol?

Not sure what trouble you're havin, zackly... PM (will be) sent.

P.

[GOLDCYLON]

Originally Posted by Paul Workman

Not sure what trouble you're havin, zackly... PM (will be) sent.

P.

Ok got it I think the issue is while I have the EZ upgrade, I dont have the laptop software.

[tomtom72]

Xfire,
Thank you for the light! Okay so if I'm understanding this on a beginning level then:

Open loop uses a pre-programmed table of fuel based upon MAP & TPS feed back...chit forgot water temp & air temp, right?

closed loop is what has actually happened as reported by the O2 sensor (results of combustion, good or bad A/F ratio. ), and MAP & TPS & IAT and Knocks..?...modify that ratio dictated by O2 results? Jezzus, O2's are the main player and the rest of the stuff is secondary data inputs...I'm wasting your time, I apologize.

Somehow I get the feeling that I'm in need of some basic text books on EFI so I can start at the beginning!

Thank you for the start, I do appreciate it!

Tom

[XfireZ51]

Originally Posted by tomtom72

Xfire,
Thank you for the light! Okay so if I'm understanding this on a beginning level then:...

Somehow I get the feeling that I'm in need of some basic text books on EFI so I can start at the beginning!

Thank you for the start, I do appreciate it!

Tom

Tom,

Go here for a real wealth of information on tuning and how ECMs work.
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/di...uide-book.html
One thing I really like about 3rd Gen is that it is a community that shares information. Everybody helps out everyone else and there are many very knowledgeable people on that forum. The Buick GN forum is the same way.
These are all people that have had to do it themselves because there was so little support from the aftermarket on TBI systems primarily.
The 3rd Gen community operates on the premise that the more everyone knows and understands the better off everybody is. The concept of holding back information from the community "for your own good or you'll screw something up" isn't one that's accepted on that forum. Plenty of warnings and info, but nobody is trying to be your parents.

Open loop uses a pre-programmed table of fuel based upon MAP & TPS feed back...chit forgot water temp & air temp, right?

closed loop is what has actually happened as reported by the O2 sensor (results of combustion, good or bad A/F ratio. ), and MAP & TPS & IAT and Knocks..?...modify that ratio dictated by O2 results? Jezzus, O2's are the main player and the rest of the stuff is secondary data inputs...

Just to make sure you understand correctly, the calibration has programmed fueling tables called VE tables. These are specific to the motor its controlling. They form the base fueling while everything else modifies them. The ECM uses the values in the VE tables all the time, whether in Open or Closed Loop. C/L invokes the various routines that modify the fueling based on sensor input like O2 and what's called the Prop Gain etc.
The VE table is usually a 3D table using RPM x MAP to specify the amount of fuel to be used. So its always using MAP sensor input but not the modifiers. If tuned correctly the value in any particular cell should get you close to a BLM of 128 in C/L. If you're using O/L, you want to shoot for 14.7:1. But its not necessarily true that if you tune the motor in O/L to 14.7, you'll be at a BLM of 128. The two aren't necessarily the same value. I won't explain that now because it gets into O2 sensor voltages and stoich setttings etc. in the cal.

...I'm wasting your time, I apologize.

No apology necessary. That's what these forums are supposed to be about.

[Paul Workman]

Tom,

One of the best books I ran across for anyone getting their head around (Corvette) fuel injection for the first time and the role of the ECMs is "Corvette Fuel Injection & Electronic Engine Management" by Charles O. Probst, (ISBN# 0-8376-0861-9) It starts w/ the basic premises, and then goes on to specific engine descriptions including:

L83
L98
LT1
LT4
LS1
LS6
LT5

This book doesn't go into ECM code manipulation, but rather all the basic concepts are introduced making the transition easier. And, it is just plain fun to read (in a geeky sort of way!

Well...After Pete's Midwest BBQ last night at Marc Haibeck's shop, I'm intrigued and will be looking for an "Ostrich" here pretty soon. It might be interesting to start a bulletin board w/ some favorite "hit tunes" that can be downloaded. Thoughts for another post.

P.

[xxxscimitarxxx]

Ive been following several threads re code scanners and data manipulation....but am a complete novice

And l have been thinking of shipping myself over to the US for a ZR1 holiday at gordons school.....the full set of courses

is data logging and manipulation covered by Gordons school or is this a subject you pick up over the years.....(and at my age l could be dead before l learn this stuff)

[tomtom72]

Originally Posted by xxxscimitarxxx

Ive been following several threads re code scanners and data manipulation....but am a complete novice

And l have been thinking of shipping myself over to the US for a ZR1 holiday at gordons school.....the full set of courses

is data logging and manipulation covered by Gordons school or is this a subject you pick up over the years.....(and at my age l could be dead before l learn this stuff)

God do I want to go the full session also. My take from reading at Mr. Killabrew's web site is that I think "modifying our prom programing" is not exactly an aim of the classes....I could be dead wrong about that! It's just that's my "gut feeling" about the aim of the school, to turn a C4 owner into a C4 technician that has "Dealership" level of knowledge. I would think that after you learn the reasons why the programing is the way it is, you would understand how to modify it....JMHO.


Tom

[XfireZ51]

Originally Posted by tomtom72

... I would think that after you learn the reasons why the programing is the way it is, you would understand how to modify it....JMHO.


Tom

Tom,

I think to understand why the calibration is what it is, you need to have an understanding of EFI and ECM controls. My suggestion for those of you interested is to visit thirdgen.org in the DIY Forum. Lots of stickies on tuning and understanding the basics.

[LT5-Lee]

I also have the AutoXray 1000. I need ot become better acquainted with it and reading the values. It seems slow and limited on the amount of time for it's dialogging feature, but it is better than nothing. I also have the CD for EZ-PC connection and having problems getting a printout that matches the screen graph, does anybody else have this problem?