Hoping to get a ZR-1 but I have quite a few questions

[Eaglerulez]

Hi Everyone,

I just registered for the boards today, but have been researching the ZR-1 for quite a while. Regardless! I am excited to be here!

I've always been a big Corvette fan and when I was about 8 years old my dad had a black ZR-1. Unfortunately he got sick a few years later when I was 11 and we had to sell it to pay for his hospital bills, but my memories of my Dad's old car are very fond and for the longest time I have always told myself that I would buy a ZR-1 one day.

I am about to graduate college and have a bit of money saved up for a new car. My brother and I currently split the payments on a 2012 V6 Camaro, which I currently drive, but at the end of the semester he gets to keep it as his own per our agreement.

My budget is about $30,000 and I've been considering a used BMW M3 a used BMW M5, as well as a used Cadillac ATS. However, considering the fact that I have been finding ZR1's in the $20,000-$25,000 range as opposed to the $30,000-$40,000 range of those other cars, I feel like the ZR1 could be a better investment simply because it is cheaper, will give me similar performance to the other cars, and it has always been my dream car. I feel like if I purchased a ZR1 I would be keeping it for the rest of my life for the most part whereas the other cars, though proven performers, just don't evoke as much passion or emotion in me.

Having said that I do have some questions that have just been eating away at me when researching all of these cars.

1) How much "better" will this car be in comparison to a V6 Camaro? I know this is kind of an obvious question, but I still think it is worth asking. My Camaro is a great car, but as a whole it feels "heavy" when doing daily driving, so much so that it becomes a bit of a pain for me to drive. Though the V6 packs 323 HP, the car as a whole feels like it is lacking. I'm pretty well versed on the straight-line metrics for both of these cars so I know the ZR-1 will be better, but how will a ZR-1 feel from a handling perspective? I really just want something that feels light and agile, most of the time, but can pull like a freight train if it needs to.

2) This car will be used as a daily driver and will be my primary and only vehicle. I know the LT-5 will be rock solid, but are there other things that I should be aware of that could hinder my enjoyment of it from a daily driving perspective? I feel like the stock stereo system would probably need to be replaced? And I am concerned about the seats/interior falling apart simply because they are getting kind of old. Are these things cheap/manageable to upgrade?

3) I know these cars are pretty old and will need some "standard" 20 year old car maintenance (replacing fluids, changing plugs, wires, etc). I don't have much under-the-hood experience aside from doing some simple bolt-on mods. Would these things be pretty easy for me to handle/ learn? I do work right across the street from Corvette Mike's in Anaheim so I do have professional help available, but I heard those dudes charge a premium price for their work. Plus, part of the reason for buying the ZR-1 is because I do like tinkering, but because I've always had relatively new cars I have never really had to for fear of messing up something, or for fear of voiding a warranty of some sort.

4) If I do purchase one of these I am hoping to keep it for a very long time. I would probably mod it in order to get the most out of the car. How much more power could I expect from fairly straightforward mods? Every time I search ZR-1 mods and the like I do see some good recommendations (like exhausts, headers, a chip, etc) but I never know what sites to look at in order to find these mods. Usually when I find ZR-1 parts they are for OEM replacement. I ask this mainly because I want to get an idea of how much modding a ZR-1 would cost.

Also, I have searched Google a few times but haven't really found much on suspension upgrades. Are there any good suspension mods for the car? I know for the Camaros we have a whole package from the likes of Pfadt that supposedly do wonders for it. Are there similar things available for the ZR-1?

I apologize for the long topic and all the other questions, but owning a ZR-1 is just such an awesome notion, and I can't believe that I am in a place in my life where this could actually be a reality. Furthermore, I just really like the idea of taking an old classic (that still is very strong on its own) and just adding some modern flare to it, to make it an even more amazing car.

Thanks in advance for the responses!

[Kevin]

1) How much "better" will this car be in comparison to a V6 Camaro? I know this is kind of an obvious question, but I still think it is worth asking. My Camaro is a great car, but as a whole it feels "heavy" when doing daily driving, so much so that it becomes a bit of a pain for me to drive. Though the V6 packs 323 HP, the car as a whole feels like it is lacking. I'm pretty well versed on the straight-line metrics for both of these cars so I know the ZR-1 will be better, but how will a ZR-1 feel from a handling perspective? I really just want something that feels light and agile, most of the time, but can pull like a freight train if it needs to.

The ZR-1 isn't a light car. On top of that it has wide tires which makes slow speed maneuvering feel heavy, the clutch is ok enough for something that does 0-60 and traps like the zr-1 will but it's still heavy for DD. I haven't driven a new Camaro so I can't really comment on how it will feel vs a zr-1 but you should be able to see more out of the zr. Early zrs have a fairly loud trany whine and the seats are hard to get in and out of but hold you much better then the later seats.

2) This car will be used as a daily driver and will be my primary and only vehicle. I know the LT-5 will be rock solid, but are there other things that I should be aware of that could hinder my enjoyment of it from a daily driving perspective? I feel like the stock stereo system would probably need to be replaced? And I am concerned about the seats/interior falling apart simply because they are getting kind of old. Are these things cheap/manageable to upgrade?

it's a 20 + year old car. The major parts f the LT5 should be fine but there are other things that are going to keep coming up that need to be fixed. The Bose is rubbish, the power key may need to be rebuilt, the secondary system will probably leak, the plenum will need to come off quite a few times to deal with injectors, starter, plugs...lots of stuff. I was worried about DDing a 1997 honda, there's no way I'd DD a ZR-1, there's no cheep part of owning a corvette. Tires on these cars are going to run $700-$1600 and that's just for rubber. How much is premium running you out there? Two years ago is was $4.30/gal if I remember correctly. you'll be in the teens for MGP around town. Probably mid-20's on the highway

3) I know these cars are pretty old and will need some "standard" 20 year old car maintenance (replacing fluids, changing plugs, wires, etc). I don't have much under-the-hood experience aside from doing some simple bolt-on mods. Would these things be pretty easy for me to handle/ learn? I do work right across the street from Corvette Mike's in Anaheim so I do have professional help available, but I heard those dudes charge a premium price for their work. Plus, part of the reason for buying the ZR-1 is because I do like tinkering, but because I've always had relatively new cars I have never really had to for fear of messing up something, or for fear of voiding a warranty of some sort.

there's not a lot of places that work on the zr-1 and corvette mike isn't one of them. I can do some basic work on cars, but I can't work on the ZR-1. I'm lucky to have a chevy dealer near by that either still has lt5 mechanic on staff or knows how to read a manual. they've done my injectors and my ac compressor in the last two years. But I've known these guys for years and a friend of mine works there. As a novice you can't really "tinker" on a zr-1. there's not many bolt ons for these cars mods require taking parts off, porting them and putting back on.

4) If I do purchase one of these I am hoping to keep it for a very long time. I would probably mod it in order to get the most out of the car. How much more power could I expect from fairly straightforward mods? Every time I search ZR-1 mods and the like I do see some good recommendations (like exhausts, headers, a chip, etc) but I never know what sites to look at in order to find these mods. Usually when I find ZR-1 parts they are for OEM replacement. I ask this mainly because I want to get an idea of how much modding a ZR-1 would cost.

headers, exhausts, and a chip are going run you probably $1300 just in parts, header install takes 8 hours, roughly. the last quote i got for exhaust install was $300. for the price of other stuff, check out www.zr1specialist.com I've never worried about suspension work because the ZR-1 doesn't really need help there in my opinion. people have lowered the car but i dont' think it really needs it and I've never been a fan of coil-overs on street driven cars. Doug Rippie Motorsports seems to be the leader in c4 suspension kits.

Let me pose you this, I was in your situation not long ago...the cars you're looking at are all very expensive to maintain. The germans even more so, a know a guy who is a service writer at bmw and in talking with him i would never own a non-warranty bmw, though a buddy of mine had an F10 m5 and that thing was fast, but you can't own one for more then 5 years. you're looking at cars that while you may be able to afford the car, you may not be able to afford the upkeep. Have you checked insurance on a zr, on the other cars you want? its not worth it to go into debt or not being able to save money just to own a car. it's a car, it'll be here tomorrow and 10 years from now. get yourself set up and on track before worrying about a car. Honda makes a perfectly fine car, so do other makers. Others will disagree with me here, and i'm sure it's going to happen soon, there is no way, I say again, no way I'd own a zr-1 as my only car.

[Eaglerulez]

Originally Posted by Kevin

The ZR-1 isn't a light car. On top of that it has wide tires which makes slow speed maneuvering feel heavy, the clutch is ok enough for something that does 0-60 and traps like the zr-1 will but it's still heavy for DD. I haven't driven a new Camaro so I can't really comment on how it will feel vs a zr-1 but you should be able to see more out of the zr. Early zrs have a fairly loud trany whine and the seats are hard to get in and out of but hold you much better then the later seats.

Thanks for the heads up about this. Yeah I do know the ZR-1's are around 3500lbs, but my Camaro weighs in at around 3700-3800lbs so I wasn't quite sure how weighing less+ having more horsepower would affect the feel of the car. I know every 100lbs shaves about 1/10th of a second in a straight line, butt that isn't what I am too concerned about. The feel is what matters. So I will keep in mind that it is still a heavy car. I do think I can live with the seats, considering that I am young!


it's a 20 + year old car. The major parts f the LT5 should be fine but there are other things that are going to keep coming up that need to be fixed. The Bose is rubbish, the power key may need to be rebuilt, the secondary system will probably leak, the plenum will need to come off quite a few times to deal with injectors, starter, plugs...lots of stuff. I was worried about DDing a 1997 honda, there's no way I'd DD a ZR-1, there's no cheep part of owning a corvette. Tires on these cars are going to run $700-$1600 and that's just for rubber. How much is premium running you out there? Two years ago is was $4.30/gal if I remember correctly. you'll be in the teens for MGP around town. Probably mid-20's on the highway

All very good points. I guess I am kind of surprised by this response, as quite a few other threads have people saying that they've driven 100,000+ miles with few problems at all. Premium probably averages at around $4 a year right now, but I would be mainly driving 15 minutes to work everyday, and then a half an hour or so to visit the girlfriend occasionally. I do think I will be driving less after college since I won't be commuting 60 miles a day to school. So fuel efficiency is a concern, but I don't see myself consuming significantly more, simply because I will probably be driving a lot less than I am now.


there's not a lot of places that work on the zr-1 and corvette mike isn't one of them. I can do some basic work on cars, but I can't work on the ZR-1. I'm lucky to have a chevy dealer near by that either still has lt5 mechanic on staff or knows how to read a manual. they've done my injectors and my ac compressor in the last two years. But I've known these guys for years and a friend of mine works there. As a novice you can't really "tinker" on a zr-1. there's not many bolt ons for these cars mods require taking parts off, porting them and putting back on.

Got it, that's a good thing to keep in mind. After looking at ZR1 Specialist, it definitely seems like the mods for this car are a bit more complicated. From what I've heard the ZR-1 specific problems seem kind of rare, while the C4 problems seem to be fixable by most Corvette shops, which is why I was thinking I could go to Corvette Mike's in a bind. I'll keep in mind that they aren't really ZR-1 specialists, but aren't most of the ZR-1 problems related to the engine? Whereas the other stuff is pretty similar to a standard C4?

headers, exhausts, and a chip are going run you probably $1300 just in parts, header install takes 8 hours, roughly. the last quote i got for exhaust install was $300. for the price of other stuff, check out www.zr1specialist.com I've never worried about suspension work because the ZR-1 doesn't really need help there in my opinion. people have lowered the car but i dont' think it really needs it and I've never been a fan of coil-overs on street driven cars. Doug Rippie Motorsports seems to be the leader in c4 suspension kits.

Oh awesome, ZR1specialist is exactly the site that I was looking for thank you so much. These mods are definitely expensive, but they do give me a clear upgrade path if I find myself in a place where I can afford them. My uncle also lives about a half hour away from these guys, so maybe taking a roadtrip to IL will be a good excuse to visit him and get some work done on the car. '

Let me pose you this, I was in your situation not long ago...the cars you're looking at are all very expensive to maintain. The germans even more so, a know a guy who is a service writer at bmw and in talking with him i would never own a non-warranty bmw, though a buddy of mine had an F10 m5 and that thing was fast, but you can't own one for more then 5 years. you're looking at cars that while you may be able to afford the car, you may not be able to afford the upkeep. Have you checked insurance on a zr, on the other cars you want? its not worth it to go into debt or not being able to save money just to own a car. it's a car, it'll be here tomorrow and 10 years from now. get yourself set up and on track before worrying about a car. Honda makes a perfectly fine car, so do other makers. Others will disagree with me here, and i'm sure it's going to happen soon, there is no way, I say again, no way I'd own a zr-1 as my only car.

Well to be honest with you, that is the concern that I have with the BMW's. They seem like great cars, but are totally fragile and cost a ton when they break. What is appealing to me about the ZR-1 is that a lot of stuff seems very well documented, the price of entry is cheaper, (which means that if I do have to drop some money for repairs it will total less than something from Germany), and since the vehicle is a little more robust, doing these repairs is at least more feasible to me since the technology is more straightforward and less specialized.

And you are right, it totally is not worth going into debt or anything like that just from owning a car. Having said that, I personally think this car has incredible bang for your buck at the price points that it is available for. I am totally aware that I will have to spend some more money on it than usual for upkeep, but after the initial repairs, should I expect things to go wrong very often?

Thanks so much for the thoughtful and detailed reply! I am totally not trying to argue against anything that you are saying by the way I am just explaining a bit of my perspective and reasoning. You have some great points that I did not consider!

[edram454]

Eaglerulez,

Tough question can be answered many ways. I have never owned a Corvette as a daily driver. Corvettes have always been pleasure crafts line Duntov would call them. Lots of people do drive them everyday. If you can stand seeing your car rained on, parked in tight spots, nicked,, dinged,, dirty... then go for it. I have had 4 Audi's and when they break, watch out!! They are 3 to 4 year cars only. Set of brakes on an A4 audi.. 2k. Not worth it without warranty. Zr1's can break and depending on the part etc.. may be hard to get part or expensive. Every day drivers could either be high mile per gallon jap cars.. or very low mileage American luxury cars, Lincoln Town Car my favorite. Got to see what you are willing to put up with and risk. I will say one thing, nothing will drive like a Zr1!!

[Bob Eyres]

I totally agree with Kevin on everything he mentioned. So I won't reiterate.

But I do have some advice because one of my other cars is the family sedan, (grocery getter), a 2008 BMW 335i.
I'm been a chevy guy forever, and own a 2003 Suburban as a work vehicle, plus the ZR-1. One sunday, out for a drive in the ZR-1 on a beach road near here, I ran into a little BMW, a 135i with a Dinan emblem on the back. We came up to a light and I thought I'd give the little "beemer smartazz" a taste of the ZR-1. To make a long story short, he cleaned my clock. He walked the ZR-1 like I was standing still, and I'm to stranger to the qtr.mile.
After the laughter died down I asked him about the car and he schooled me about the twin turbo straight six.
At the time, we were looking for a new car for my wife. So I did my homework, then went to the local BMW store and had them search for a used 335i. Months later they found just the right car. Low mileage, on their CPO program (certified pre-owned). I bought it for less than half of new price, (right in your range), and have been driving it ever since.
It's the best combo of practical daily driver, superb handling performance vehicle, that I have ever owned. And for $500 or so you can tweak the computer to give it horsepower in the 350-400hp. range. What's not to like?

It came with a warranty that lasted over 2 yrs., and the service, free up until now, has been very good.
Where else can you get a car that will get an honest 30mpg on the highway, but when you put the hammer down it really hauls ***. It's made me a BMW, (and turbo), fan.
The downside is the expensive service bills that are probably in store for me if I don't turn it around for another one soon.

I love my ZR-1, but like the others said, it's not the best daily driver, and may not be the best choice for you at this time.

[scottfab]

Originally Posted by Kevin

1)
.....snip....
its not worth it to go into debt or not being able to save money just to own a car. it's a car, it'll be here tomorrow and 10 years from now. get yourself set up and on track before worrying about a car. Honda makes a perfectly fine car, so do other makers. Others will disagree with me here, and i'm sure it's going to happen soon, there is no way, I say again, no way I'd own a zr-1 as my only car.

I have to also go along with Kevin on all except where he wrote "rubbish".
I'd say it was garbage

Seriously, I'd advise you as I would one of my grown sons. Get a house first with your $. It's still a GREAT time to pick one up. Run a used econo car for a few years THEN jump on a mid mileage ZR-1 before they begin to climb out of the affordable range.
The depressed value on the Z will not stay down.
In the interim time get to know the car by following the posts here. You'll not only know what's what but be able to spot a deal on a ZR-1 when it happens.

If you're dead set on getting a ZR-1 avoid one so heavily modified that you play hell maintaining it. (or getting it to pass emissions and/or inspection) Wildly modified cars are going to have a much steeper learning curve with no one able to help A car reasonably modified (chip, exhaust, ported) will have the benefits with not much down side.
Do your self a favor too and get up to speed one emissions testing where you're at. So. Cal is notorious for the ZR-1 and emissions. Over the years the Republic of Kalifornia has tightened emissions for the ZR-1 making it harder to pass. There are several threads here on the forum on same.

[WARP TEN]

Originally Posted by Bob Eyres

I totally agree with Kevin on everything he mentioned. So I won't reiterate.

But I do have some advice because one of my other cars is the family sedan, (grocery getter), a 2008 BMW 335i.....

Hi Bob--Agree on the comments--a 20 year old ZR-1 will be fun but probably a bit costly, and while fairly reliable not trouble free as a daily driver if you plan to put some miles on it.

BTW, my wife also drives a 2008 335xi sedan and loves it. Every time I suggest getting a newer one she says she is never selling her BMW; it will be her last car. It is amazingly quick and when her 4 year warranty was due to expire I added a three year Fidelity warranty up to 75k miles so we are set for a while. (I work at a BMW dealer and the techs said they have no problems with this warranty; indeed they covered a water pump failure without any questions (about $2k)). While we have not had many problems with it, I agree that BMWs should be on warranty unless you have deep pockets to handle the unexpected. The car has about 48k miles on it and its trade in value is only about $13k-15k so they should be availalbe at a reasonable price with cash to spare for future repairs. -Bob

[mike100]

20 year old cars are more economical if you can provide your own service labor. It is possible to find a well sorted car that is driven frequently, but it is possible to end up spending an extra $10k over the course of 2-3 years repairing and modding to keep up with modern muscle. I think I knew I would go to a ZR-1 (from a 300hp C4) when I got stroked by one of those 382hp S class Mercs and then got destroyed by a 335.

I can tell you that the ZR-1, while heavier and less balanced than a regular C4, will really be a lot more nimble and connected than any of the newer pony cars. Maybe not a Boss302 or ZL1, but you get the idea- C4 are easy to push toward their limits because the feedback is pretty good for an older car.

To even be able to mention them in comparison to newer stuff is a compliment for sure, but a vette this old may not be the best value economically. Then again, the depreciation won't be as much as a BMW with mileage.

The best bargain right now is an 03/04 C5 Z06 with low mileage. You have to really want a ZR-1 for sentimental reasons.

[LGAFF]

Buy a cheaper higher mile Z with service history, then buy a day to day car....Focus, Mazda 3, etc

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by scottfab

I have to also go along with Kevin on all except where he wrote "rubbish".
I'd say it was garbage

Seriously, I'd advise you as I would one of my grown sons. Get a house first with your $. It's still a GREAT time to pick one up. Run a used econo car for a few years THEN jump on a mid mileage ZR-1 before they begin to climb out of the affordable range.
The depressed value on the Z will not stay down.
In the interim time get to know the car by following the posts here. You'll not only know what's what but be able to spot a deal on a ZR-1 when it happens.

If you're dead set on getting a ZR-1 avoid one so heavily modified that you play hell maintaining it. (or getting it to pass emissions and/or inspection) Wildly modified cars are going to have a much steeper learning curve with no one able to help A car reasonably modified (chip, exhaust, ported) will have the benefits with not much down side.
Do your self a favor too and get up to speed one emissions testing where you're at. So. Cal is notorious for the ZR-1 and emissions. Over the years the Republic of Kalifornia has tightened emissions for the ZR-1 making it harder to pass. There are several threads here on the forum on same.

i may listen to too many brisitsh podcasts.