Clutch & Flywheel Replacement - Page 2 - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

c4koh · 10-04-2014

Well - finished the job and will make a more detailed write-up including tool sizes and photos at some point over the next weeks...

Summary of my first clutch change as below:

Just finished 2 and half weekends of part-time maintenance, with a change of clutch and new Fidanza flywheel, courtesy of Carolina Clutch... working under 21" of raised car (SUV jackstands), and a very unweildy 160lb ZF transmission, there was quite a bit of exasperation, swearing, head scratching... but finally put the exhaust and the shifter parts back on today, fired her up and all working... relief!
Anyone thinking to do the clutch by themselves (which I've done - only time I needed help was my wife to depress the clutch pedal while shoving the tranny back in...), it's a doable job...
Exhaust out (easy enough)
Prop shaft out (very, very easy - though make sure the rear wheels can move and parking brake off so you can rotate the shaft around to get to the 4 bolts)
Drive / C-beam out (medium). The 4 bolts (2 front, 2 rear) are a tiny bit of a pain to get your hands to, but doable; just make sure you have another wrench over them to stop them spinning while you take out the bolts.
Shuffles out relatively easy - just tip the transmission /engine down a bit.
Transmission out (medium). The 5 bolts to bellhousing were easy enough to get to, but needs careful shifting and gentle, VERY gentle, pressure to get it out of the clutch & bearing... For the transmission removal, I did *not* have a transmission jack (I got one for putting it back in), so it was a pain with a regular floor jack to lower it, but carefully done it was OK.
Bellhousing (PITA) - the bolts are all a pain to get to. Invest in some decent u-joint / bendable sockets and extensions, makes it much easier.
I didn't need to remove the fork ball, just rotated and slid it off... bit of shuffling, but it came off the throwout bearing no problem.
Clutch out (easy) - only thing is you'll need gloves / shoprag to hold the flywheel teeth, which are sharp.
Flywheel out (easy, though I did use an impact wrench to remove the 8 bolts).
Pilot bearing out - easy. I used a slide hammer with bearing puller which made it a 2 minute job.
New Pilot bearing - easy enough. I used the old one over the new one as a means to tap it in, worked well. I was not sure how far "inside" the depression it was supposed to go - the bearing is about 3/4" deep, but the cavity is around 1.5" from flywheel face to crank plug... I'd forgotten to photo it, so instead tapped it back until it was completely snug... it's a slight taper before the pilot bore, so I tapped it back to the finish of the taper, so it's "inside" not flush with the flywheel, but in around 1/2".
New Flywheel in (easy - I also used red loctite while torquing it down).
New Clutch / PP plate (ditto)
Bellhousing back... (less PITA, easier to torque down than try and break loose fastened bolts. I used blue loctite on these.
Same amount of shuffling to get the fork back in, but nothing serious.
Transmission back - HARD. Took a while to position it, pain, and it's very heavy... and you need a clutch depressed to point the snout into the pilot bearing... and that last inch... Took me about an hour!
After figuring out the best way, it then took a few minutes! The 5 bolts that connect the transmission to the bellhousing are quite short, and if you need that last inch, they wont go through the transmission bolt and bite into the housing... So, if you have a longer, same-spec bolt, you can use this to bite and pull it in - this worked a charm... transmission was then mated, and other 4 bolts went in, then replaced the temporary bolt with that.
C-beam back - easy, but only after learning you need to tip the transmission and engine down to slide it over the transmission first, then back over the rear drive.
Prop shaft back - very easy. Careful not to have the cap with tiny needle pin bearings open... ask me how I know... The FSM does say to tape it. I didn't. Lesson learned.
Exhaust back - medium - bit of a pain frankly to position it all in, and the spring bolts were a pain too...
All in all completely doable with patience, Factory Service Manual invaluable, as is iPhone to take photos at all stages to work back from. Haynes and Chilton useless for the task - not used whatsoever.
HTH.

Editing to add:
The old Dual Mass flywheel had ZERO flywheel weights in any of the 24 notches. The new lightweight Fidanza, according to Tom @ CC is probably good for up to 2 or 3 balance weights in that original flywheel, but clearly zero is perfect as the CNC new flywheel is pretty balanced anyway from all accounts. That, and many, many people saying they just put in the Fidanza straight from the box, I did the same.
Rattle? Pretty muted, actually. I was expecting a really loud rattle like a can of ball bearings, but it's more like a can of heavy ballbearings / marbles, but in a carpetted can... a sort of muffled rattly noise... and not really very noticeable.

Transmission Oil - went with ZFDoc's recommendation of the BMW M Castrol 10W60; I'd put MTL Redline in the last time (8 years ago...) which seemed nice enough but this Castrol stuff is THICK. Took a while to pour it down the funnel and hosepipe, I can tell you!

5ABI VT · 10-04-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by c4koh

Well - finished the job and will make a more detailed write-up including tool sizes and photos at some point over the next weeks...

Summary of my first clutch change as below:

Just finished 2 and half weekends of part-time maintenance, with a change of clutch and new Fidanza flywheel, courtesy of Carolina Clutch... working under 21" of raised car (SUV jackstands), and a very unweildy 160lb ZF transmission, there was quite a bit of exasperation, swearing, head scratching... but finally put the exhaust and the shifter parts back on today, fired her up and all working... relief!
Anyone thinking to do the clutch by themselves (which I've done - only time I needed help was my wife to depress the clutch pedal while shoving the tranny back in...), it's a doable job...
Exhaust out (easy enough)
Prop shaft out (very, very easy - though make sure the rear wheels can move and parking brake off so you can rotate the shaft around to get to the 4 bolts)
Drive / C-beam out (medium). The 4 bolts (2 front, 2 rear) are a tiny bit of a pain to get your hands to, but doable; just make sure you have another wrench over them to stop them spinning while you take out the bolts.
Shuffles out relatively easy - just tip the transmission /engine down a bit.
Transmission out (medium). The 5 bolts to bellhousing were easy enough to get to, but needs careful shifting and gentle, VERY gentle, pressure to get it out of the clutch & bearing... For the transmission removal, I did *not* have a transmission jack (I got one for putting it back in), so it was a pain with a regular floor jack to lower it, but carefully done it was OK.
Bellhousing (PITA) - the bolts are all a pain to get to. Invest in some decent u-joint / bendable sockets and extensions, makes it much easier.
I didn't need to remove the fork ball, just rotated and slid it off... bit of shuffling, but it came off the throwout bearing no problem.
Clutch out (easy) - only thing is you'll need gloves / shoprag to hold the flywheel teeth, which are sharp.
Flywheel out (easy, though I did use an impact wrench to remove the 8 bolts).
Pilot bearing out - easy. I used a slide hammer with bearing puller which made it a 2 minute job.
New Pilot bearing - easy enough. I used the old one over the new one as a means to tap it in, worked well. I was not sure how far "inside" the depression it was supposed to go - the bearing is about 3/4" deep, but the cavity is around 1.5" from flywheel face to crank plug... I'd forgotten to photo it, so instead tapped it back until it was completely snug... it's a slight taper before the pilot bore, so I tapped it back to the finish of the taper, so it's "inside" not flush with the flywheel, but in around 1/2".
New Flywheel in (easy - I also used red loctite while torquing it down).
New Clutch / PP plate (ditto)
Bellhousing back... (less PITA, easier to torque down than try and break loose fastened bolts. I used blue loctite on these.
Same amount of shuffling to get the fork back in, but nothing serious.
Transmission back - HARD. Took a while to position it, pain, and it's very heavy... and you need a clutch depressed to point the snout into the pilot bearing... and that last inch... Took me about an hour!
After figuring out the best way, it then took a few minutes! The 5 bolts that connect the transmission to the bellhousing are quite short, and if you need that last inch, they wont go through the transmission bolt and bite into the housing... So, if you have a longer, same-spec bolt, you can use this to bite and pull it in - this worked a charm... transmission was then mated, and other 4 bolts went in, then replaced the temporary bolt with that.
C-beam back - easy, but only after learning you need to tip the transmission and engine down to slide it over the transmission first, then back over the rear drive.
Prop shaft back - very easy. Careful not to have the cap with tiny needle pin bearings open... ask me how I know... The FSM does say to tape it. I didn't. Lesson learned.
Exhaust back - medium - bit of a pain frankly to position it all in, and the spring bolts were a pain too...
All in all completely doable with patience, Factory Service Manual invaluable, as is iPhone to take photos at all stages to work back from. Haynes and Chilton useless for the task - not used whatsoever.
HTH.

Editing to add:
The old Dual Mass flywheel had ZERO flywheel weights in any of the 24 notches. The new lightweight Fidanza, according to Tom @ CC is probably good for up to 2 or 3 balance weights in that original flywheel, but clearly zero is perfect as the CNC new flywheel is pretty balanced anyway from all accounts. That, and many, many people saying they just put in the Fidanza straight from the box, I did the same.
Rattle? Pretty muted, actually. I was expecting a really loud rattle like a can of ball bearings, but it's more like a can of heavy ballbearings / marbles, but in a carpetted can... a sort of muffled rattly noise... and not really very noticeable.

Transmission Oil - went with ZFDoc's recommendation of the BMW M Castrol 10W60; I'd put MTL Redline in the last time (8 years ago...) which seemed nice enough but this Castrol stuff is THICK. Took a while to pour it down the funnel and hosepipe, I can tell you!

Big thank you =) just finished a 16 hr shift.. Going home to pass out and wake up and start mine tonight

this has given me renewed confidence to get in there.

Any details on the arp bolts .. Was it any issue because they don't have a shoulder etc ? I want to order a set myself.

c4koh · 10-04-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5ABI VT

Any details on the arp bolts .. Was it any issue because they don't have a shoulder etc ? I want to order a set myself.

Well, the ARP bolts did have a slight shoulder (say around 1/2" diameter of shoulder on the 7/16" head (IIRC)...), so that'd be about 1/16" of shoulder proud of the head... but the washers that were supplied by Jerry (Jerry's Gaskets) rounded it out to maybe 1/2" or 9/16", so certainly a bit more meat.

They went in snug, only thing to note is that they're 12 point, and 7/16" - which of course I didn't have a 12pt socket in that size (just 6pt)... For the flywheel, and especially wanting to torque them correctly, I didn't want to risk rounding them and using at 6pt socket.... All torqueing of bolts back (for flywheel, with red loctite, and for clutch pressure plate to flywheel, also with red loctite) were carefully torqued to Factory Service Manual specification, in the star pattern indicated in the FSM.

To be honest, the only pains were the clutch-housing bolts, getting the transmission back in, and removing/re-installing the drive C-beam (until I found out to tip the engine and tranny down a little!).

FYI I calculated hours spent to be around 25 hours for everything: jacking up, preparation, all parts removal, writing up as I went along, and re-installation... I'd also think if I did it again, knowing what I know now, I'd be able to do it in half that - i.e. a long day. I also coated the exhaust fitting bolts with copper grease, for the 3 flange bolts (LHS, front), each of the 4 spring bolts, and the two back J connectors to the rubber supports.

But above all, absolutely doable by yourself - if I can, anyone can!

Steve

ghlkal · 10-04-2014

Good work

Quote:

Originally Posted by c4koh

The 5 bolts that connect the transmission to the bellhousing are quite short, and if you need that last inch, they wont go through the transmission bolt and bite into the housing... So, if you have a longer, same-spec bolt, you can use this to bite and pull it in - this worked a charm... transmission was then mated, and other 4 bolts went in, then replaced the temporary bolt with that.

This is a great tip

Franke · 10-04-2014

Excellent work and write up. I for one would like to know how the car runs and reacts to the new flywheel/clutch setup.
I don't know if this is a help or not but in the past on other 4 speed cars I got longer tranny bolts and cut the heads off. Then I threaded them into the bell housing to use as a guide rail for the tranny to slide on into the clutch. I also used a centering tool for the clutch disc. Usually the tranny seated all the way with just a twist of the output shaft while in gear. If the tranny didn't seat all the way then I had someone else release the clutch and all was good. I don't know if there is enough room in the tunnel of the Z to do this.

10-04-2014	#11
c4koh Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Fishkill, NY Posts: 87	Re: Clutch & Flywheel Replacement Well - finished the job and will make a more detailed write-up including tool sizes and photos at some point over the next weeks... Summary of my first clutch change as below: Just finished 2 and half weekends of part-time maintenance, with a change of clutch and new Fidanza flywheel, courtesy of Carolina Clutch... working under 21" of raised car (SUV jackstands), and a very unweildy 160lb ZF transmission, there was quite a bit of exasperation, swearing, head scratching... but finally put the exhaust and the shifter parts back on today, fired her up and all working... relief! Anyone thinking to do the clutch by themselves (which I've done - only time I needed help was my wife to depress the clutch pedal while shoving the tranny back in...), it's a doable job... Exhaust out (easy enough) Prop shaft out (very, very easy - though make sure the rear wheels can move and parking brake off so you can rotate the shaft around to get to the 4 bolts) Drive / C-beam out (medium). The 4 bolts (2 front, 2 rear) are a tiny bit of a pain to get your hands to, but doable; just make sure you have another wrench over them to stop them spinning while you take out the bolts. Shuffles out relatively easy - just tip the transmission /engine down a bit. Transmission out (medium). The 5 bolts to bellhousing were easy enough to get to, but needs careful shifting and gentle, VERY gentle, pressure to get it out of the clutch & bearing... For the transmission removal, I did not have a transmission jack (I got one for putting it back in), so it was a pain with a regular floor jack to lower it, but carefully done it was OK. Bellhousing (PITA) - the bolts are all a pain to get to. Invest in some decent u-joint / bendable sockets and extensions, makes it much easier. I didn't need to remove the fork ball, just rotated and slid it off... bit of shuffling, but it came off the throwout bearing no problem. Clutch out (easy) - only thing is you'll need gloves / shoprag to hold the flywheel teeth, which are sharp. Flywheel out (easy, though I did use an impact wrench to remove the 8 bolts). Pilot bearing out - easy. I used a slide hammer with bearing puller which made it a 2 minute job. New Pilot bearing - easy enough. I used the old one over the new one as a means to tap it in, worked well. I was not sure how far "inside" the depression it was supposed to go - the bearing is about 3/4" deep, but the cavity is around 1.5" from flywheel face to crank plug... I'd forgotten to photo it, so instead tapped it back until it was completely snug... it's a slight taper before the pilot bore, so I tapped it back to the finish of the taper, so it's "inside" not flush with the flywheel, but in around 1/2". New Flywheel in (easy - I also used red loctite while torquing it down). New Clutch / PP plate (ditto) Bellhousing back... (less PITA, easier to torque down than try and break loose fastened bolts. I used blue loctite on these. Same amount of shuffling to get the fork back in, but nothing serious. Transmission back - HARD. Took a while to position it, pain, and it's very heavy... and you need a clutch depressed to point the snout into the pilot bearing... and that last inch... Took me about an hour! After figuring out the best way, it then took a few minutes! The 5 bolts that connect the transmission to the bellhousing are quite short, and if you need that last inch, they wont go through the transmission bolt and bite into the housing... So, if you have a longer, same-spec bolt, you can use this to bite and pull it in - this worked a charm... transmission was then mated, and other 4 bolts went in, then replaced the temporary bolt with that. C-beam back - easy, but only after learning you need to tip the transmission and engine down to slide it over the transmission first, then back over the rear drive. Prop shaft back - very easy. Careful not to have the cap with tiny needle pin bearings open... ask me how I know... The FSM does say to tape it. I didn't. Lesson learned. Exhaust back - medium - bit of a pain frankly to position it all in, and the spring bolts were a pain too... All in all completely doable with patience, Factory Service Manual invaluable, as is iPhone to take photos at all stages to work back from. Haynes and Chilton useless for the task - not used whatsoever. HTH. Editing to add: The old Dual Mass flywheel had ZERO flywheel weights in any of the 24 notches. The new lightweight Fidanza, according to Tom @ CC is probably good for up to 2 or 3 balance weights in that original flywheel, but clearly zero is perfect as the CNC new flywheel is pretty balanced anyway from all accounts. That, and many, many people saying they just put in the Fidanza straight from the box, I did the same. Rattle? Pretty muted, actually. I was expecting a really loud rattle like a can of ball bearings, but it's more like a can of heavy ballbearings / marbles, but in a carpetted can... a sort of muffled rattly noise... and not really very noticeable. Transmission Oil - went with ZFDoc's recommendation of the BMW M Castrol 10W60; I'd put MTL Redline in the last time (8 years ago...) which seemed nice enough but this Castrol stuff is THICK. Took a while to pour it down the funnel and hosepipe, I can tell you! Last edited by c4koh; 10-04-2014 at 02:41 PM.

10-04-2014	#15
Franke Join Date: May 2013 Location: Beaver, PA Posts: 516	Re: Clutch & Flywheel Replacement Excellent work and write up. I for one would like to know how the car runs and reacts to the new flywheel/clutch setup. I don't know if this is a help or not but in the past on other 4 speed cars I got longer tranny bolts and cut the heads off. Then I threaded them into the bell housing to use as a guide rail for the tranny to slide on into the clutch. I also used a centering tool for the clutch disc. Usually the tranny seated all the way with just a twist of the output shaft while in gear. If the tranny didn't seat all the way then I had someone else release the clutch and all was good. I don't know if there is enough room in the tunnel of the Z to do this.