Hurst Shifter Difficult 3rd

[FU]

Originally Posted by WVZR-1

Could it be a shifter issue? Maybe. Likely? I've no idea.

Hurst shifter issue ? I posted about my experience with the Hurst shifter and got run over. I installed the Hurst shifter AFTER hearing a much more experienced ZR1er's experience. And guess what happened ? Read OP.

Solve the issue and put in a BB short shifter.

Again , my experience and another as well. And I expect this advise to be run over as well. Hey , I have nothing to loose it's your ZF.

[WVZR-1]

OP - if this were my car just because it requires so little effort I'd remove the plug for the transmission detent, remove the springs and the ball then wash everything down with brake clean and maybe just wash out the bore some, use maybe some sewing machine oil and see if I couldn't get the shift rail maybe being just a bit more free in the case.

I really believe it's very easy to end up with a situation like you have with the shifter being installed by a novice. Fault of the shifter? Maybe. Frank's been there but I'd be inclined to think maybe installer.

[RussMcB]

What are some mistakes a novice might make?

I just installed a Hurst shifter. It wasn't "easy", but it was pretty straightforward.

My car is still on jackstands, so I haven't really tested it yet (other than going through the gears while still off the ground).

It is kinda funny - I only remember hearing good things about the Hurst shifter before I decided to get one.

[KPW]

Are you sure it's the shifter and not the trans?

I don't think I have done anything to rule out the trans. Hoping not, because in my mind the shifter is easier/cheaper to deal with.

I've seen the 3d gear issue mentioned many times in the past and I understand that's likely very easily corrected from "under the car" with three parts and minimal time. A detent ball and two springs accessible just forward of the CAGS. ZF DR mentions it in his FAQ.

I read that too. Do you know what aspect of the shift movement that detent controls? As easy as that is I'd like to have a little more confidence before I throw parts at it.

OP - if this were my car just because it requires so little effort I'd remove the plug for the transmission detent, remove the springs and the ball then wash everything down with brake clean and maybe just wash out the bore some, use maybe some sewing machine oil and see if I couldn't get the shift rail maybe being just a bit more free in the case.

I like the idea of this. When I get an opportunity to get it in the air again I'll take a swing at it.

I really believe it's very easy to end up with a situation like you have with the shifter being installed by a novice.

I'm on board with this statement...I just opened up the console to take a look at this thing. The lower boot is half gone...looks like whoever installed it took a shortcut and cut it out. Eek.



I played around with the shifter some more, but I can't seem to recreate the hang-up with any consistency. It seems to happen when it wants to. However, I have found that I can typically fix it by pulling back into 4th and then when I go forward to 3rd it will fully engage. Does that indicate an alignment issue?

I'm beginning to think that I may want to have a qualified installer either re-install this shifter or change out to another. Wipe the slate clean and just get it right. I'm willing to try cleaning the detente, but the missing lower boot seems problematic at best...any suggestions in SE Michigan?

[Z51JEFF]

My 91 with 7000 miles would hang up when bangin 3rd gear hard. Anymore in this situation when bangin 3rd I pay attention to make it instead of grindin off a few pounds. This is a stock shifter and trans.

[Paul Workman]

Originally Posted by RussMcB

Just tossing out a question ...

Are you sure it's the shifter and not the trans?

Perhaps we can ask if anyone has had this issue with the stock shifter. If not, then you're probably right.

There's a rubber boot underneath the car. I suppose you could shoot some lithium grease in there, but it's a pain to work with. Therefore, I'd think it'd be easier to go in from the top to apply some new grease, and, if you're lucky, maybe recreate the issue while you're looking at the shifter workings.

Good luck.

Reading with great interest, as I'm contemplating a Hurst shifter in the near future.

I can say that with the engine off and running through the gears with my stock shifter, it will often randomly refuse to go into a gear - not always the same one tho. That isn't unusual, considering how synchros work and depend on movement to align the splines.

While driving/racing, it hasn't been a problem, except occasionally for 5th gear - a synchro(?), I suspect. But, in comparison, I've not had any issues at all with shifting Ami's 91 Z; at least while driving (never tired it with the engine OFF).

However, after seeing that video, I may step up my clutch maintenance some...but I doubt it will be with every gasoline fill-up per the video. (That seems a little "OC" to me.)

[WARP TEN]

Originally Posted by Paul Workman

Reading with great interest, as I'm contemplating a Hurst shifter in the near future.

I can say that with the engine off and running through the gears with my stock shifter, it will often randomly refuse to go into a gear - not always the same one tho. That isn't unusual, considering how synchros work and depend on movement to align the splines.

While driving/racing, it hasn't been a problem, except occasionally for 5th gear - a synchro(?), I suspect. But, in comparison, I've not had any issues at all with shifting Ami's 91 Z; at least while driving (never tired it with the engine OFF).

However, after seeing that video, I may step up my clutch maintenance some...but I doubt it will be with every gasoline fill-up per the video. (That seems a little "OC" to me.)

Hi Paul--For comparison, you can also try mine when we are at Marc's on the 20th. --Bob

[Gunny]

Paul ... you can also try mine on the 20th ... I'm plan to be at Marc's BBQ too.

[5ABI VT]

I have no issues with any gear with my Hurst in my 94. I have tons of videos on my youtube page going through the gears at the limiter including racing a mustang cobra just the other night and hitting 3rd. smooth as silk I can probably shift into gear with my pinky if I had to. I have a fully stage 2 rebuilt t-56 in my ctsv and its a pile of turd compared to the zf. Every time I drive this car.. this shifter and trans simply amaze me at how smooth it is. I would reccomend reverse bleeding the hydraulic system or at least trying to change the fluid and doing a bench bleed etc on the slave.

[KPW]

Thanks everyone for chiming in with their experiences and suggestions. As a newbie I'm learning a lot here.

I've driven the Z quite a bit in the last week, culminating with a long drive over the Labor Day weekend. Shifting seems much improved. Here's where I'm at:

-The trans oil now has had an abundance of time to work it's way through everything.
-I'm being very mindful of taking my time on shifting into 3rd, seems to alleviate any difficulties there, regardless of RPM.
-Took out the aftermarket floor mat on the driver side. Looks like the mat may have been interfering a little...maybe not that big of a deal in most cases, but more so if the clutch hydraulics are at all degraded, which brings me to my next point.
-As many of you have suggested, my clutch hydraulics probably need some refreshment. Once I flushed my hydraulics with new fluid, shifting improved considerably. I think we have a winner here. It would be prudent to pick a new master and slave soon, but I'll keep the ones on the car as clean as I can in the meantime.

I was quick to blame the shifter for my issues here, but upon further discussion and investigation it seems like it's not entirely at fault. Based on the installation of my Hurst, it's possible that it's not perfect, but it seems to work well when all of the other components involved are brought up to speed.