2x NO START ZR-1's - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

Rd.adam@hotmail.com · 10-01-2015

Hi, I have 2 ZR-1's, both 1990. I was in hospital for several months, etc, and anyways both cars sat for 3-4 years.
Got the black car started briefly, it ran barely for a few minutes, seemed to come around better, then quit. Fuel tank was dry. Assumed faulty fuel pump so changed them out. Car has never fired since.
Pulled 8 plugs out, they all have spark, even though it seems a bit on weaker side. Put fuel pressure gauge on rail,it seems fine, about 50-55 lbs while cranking engine. Still won't start, will not even fire.
Also, have bypassed vats system using a GM dealer vats interrogator black box. Still won't fire.
Any suggestions ?

Also on my red car, it always cranks over, bypassed vats system, it will sometimes fire up. Took it for drive of 10 miles, it had maybe 100 hp or less. My mechanic then cut out catalytic converters, now it starts only when battery connects directly to the purple wire. The car now will not seem to rev up, and backfires a bit. Shut it off, then it will refuse to start until several attempts made.
Both cars were sitting 3-4 years. I even tried swapping ecm's, did not make any difference.
Any suggestions ?
Thanks
Rd.adam@hotmail.com
Dean Adam

vilant · 10-01-2015

Maybe a bad starter or relay on the black one?
Have you checked both cars for stored codes? Anything stored or current? Are the injectors and coil packs original?

Rd.adam@hotmail.com · 10-01-2015

Both cars starters are working. Had a mechanic check for codes-nothing showing. Original coil packs on both. I am assuming original injectors on both, as I owned them last 10 years. New batteries on both cars.

vilant · 10-01-2015

Well, I'm thinking it's either the coil packs or crankshaft position sensor then. If the engine is cranking but not turning over and you have fresh gas, good fuel pressure, new battery, and good ECM, good plugs, the only other thing besides the packs and sensor (well there is the camshaft sensor but I know it's starts when that's bad) is the DIS module(better hope it's not that). I would replace the packs and injectors IF they're original. If they have been changed I would try the crankshaft sensor. Hopefully others will chime in and confirm what I'm thinking. I could be wrong but that's what I would do.

Rd.adam@hotmail.com · 10-02-2015

Thanks for a great reply ! What is a DIS ?
On my black car, it had been started and running after the 3 yrs parked, it was idling ok, and seemed to rev up ok, but ran out of gas. Put new gas in, no start, decided to change fuel pumps and filter, then had good fuel pressure using gauge attached to fuel rail- just over 50 lbs, but has never started since.
New spark plugs, all plugs sparking , seems to be getting fuel into cylinders using the BBQ lighter stuffed into spark plug holes and burning off my eye brows.... New battery fully charged, vats system bypassed, etc- nothing....not even a hint of firing on any cylinder, or in other words same as cranking engine over with no spark or no fuel. But all 8 plugs giving spark when out laying on top of engine.
Is it possible to have all injectors fail at one time ?? Or possible to have coil packs all fail at same time ????
Is there a way to check crankshaft position sensor, and are they expensive and difficult to change ?? Thanks guys

vilant · 10-02-2015

Direct ignition system.
Generally no.
If the red one runs, although not well, I would take the crankshaft sensor off and put it on the black one to verify. Its a cheap part, Jerry Gaskets sells them.
Just curious, was the plenum pulled off after it was running? If so, its very possible something is just unplugged. There's a lot of crap under there and easy to forget something.

Jim Nolan · 10-02-2015

Wow! If they have been sitting that long and they still had the original factory injectors that's the first place I'd look.

A26B · 10-02-2015

Its not common but certainly not unheard of either. Mice do like the area under the plenum & chewing on wiring.

I think a complete & thorough verification the fuel system is the first order of priority, considering you have no codes. This means removing the fuel pump sender, cleaning the tank out & replacing with fresh fuel..... all the way through, filter lines, etc & including the fuel injectors. Removing the rails & injectors should be part of the process.

Don't overlook the filter & the rails. I had a customer returning a long stored ZR-1 that had fuel rails so plugged that he purchased replacements. Have your fuel injectors flow tested before dropping the big bucks on 2 new sets of injectors, if for no other reason than to eliminate fuel related problems for long enough to determine what you can rule out in the troubleshooting process. Confirm pressure & delivery after all components are cleaned & assembled. This is NOT to say that your stock injectors do not or will not need replaced. It is virtually a certainty for 90~92 model ZR-1's at some point.

Rd.adam@hotmail.com · 10-02-2015

I read somewhere about reading spark plugs while cranking engine with plugs laying loose on top of engine..... I think it said something like this: orange spark is weak, blue spark means strong. Anyone hear of this?
I think mine were the orange color spark, but I will be retrying that test for sure.
Also Jerry, what is cost of crankshaft sensor ? Is that sensor unique to the ZR-1?
And what is cost of new plenum gaskets ? I think I will attempt removing injectors and getting them tested... Is that a difficult job, do I need special tools? I have never removed an injector or plenum before. Can injectors be tested without removal ? Can any dealership or even diesel injection place test them properly ?

A26B · 10-03-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rd.adam@hotmail.com

Also Jerry, what is cost of crankshaft sensor ?

http://www.jerrysgaskets.com/sensor-...w-1991-95-1f5/

Quote:

And what is cost of new plenum gaskets ?

http://www.jerrysgaskets.com/gasket-...32-90-95-11d2/

Quote:

I think I will attempt removing injectors and getting them tested... Is that a difficult job, do I need special tools?

No special tools. Hard depends mainly on your mechanical ability. The less skill you have the greater the difficulty.

Quote:

I have never removed an injector or plenum before. Can injectors be tested without removal ?

Only partially. They should be removed completely so they can be cleaned & flow tested.

Quote:

Can any dealership or even diesel injection place test them properly ?

Probably

The fuel system is bound to have some problems after sitting for 3 or 4 years. I suggest you work through the fuel system first before spending time & money chasing other avenues that may not even be faulty.

10-01-2015	#1
Rd.adam@hotmail.com Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 9	2x NO START ZR-1's Hi, I have 2 ZR-1's, both 1990. I was in hospital for several months, etc, and anyways both cars sat for 3-4 years. Got the black car started briefly, it ran barely for a few minutes, seemed to come around better, then quit. Fuel tank was dry. Assumed faulty fuel pump so changed them out. Car has never fired since. Pulled 8 plugs out, they all have spark, even though it seems a bit on weaker side. Put fuel pressure gauge on rail,it seems fine, about 50-55 lbs while cranking engine. Still won't start, will not even fire. Also, have bypassed vats system using a GM dealer vats interrogator black box. Still won't fire. Any suggestions ? Also on my red car, it always cranks over, bypassed vats system, it will sometimes fire up. Took it for drive of 10 miles, it had maybe 100 hp or less. My mechanic then cut out catalytic converters, now it starts only when battery connects directly to the purple wire. The car now will not seem to rev up, and backfires a bit. Shut it off, then it will refuse to start until several attempts made. Both cars were sitting 3-4 years. I even tried swapping ecm's, did not make any difference. Any suggestions ? Thanks Rd.adam@hotmail.com Dean Adam

10-01-2015	#2
vilant Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: PA Posts: 772	Re: 2x NO START ZR-1's Maybe a bad starter or relay on the black one? Have you checked both cars for stored codes? Anything stored or current? Are the injectors and coil packs original? __________________ Joe 1990 Bright Red ZR-1 #2599

10-01-2015	#3
Rd.adam@hotmail.com Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 9	Re: 2x NO START ZR-1's Both cars starters are working. Had a mechanic check for codes-nothing showing. Original coil packs on both. I am assuming original injectors on both, as I owned them last 10 years. New batteries on both cars.

10-01-2015	#4
vilant Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: PA Posts: 772	Re: 2x NO START ZR-1's Well, I'm thinking it's either the coil packs or crankshaft position sensor then. If the engine is cranking but not turning over and you have fresh gas, good fuel pressure, new battery, and good ECM, good plugs, the only other thing besides the packs and sensor (well there is the camshaft sensor but I know it's starts when that's bad) is the DIS module(better hope it's not that). I would replace the packs and injectors IF they're original. If they have been changed I would try the crankshaft sensor. Hopefully others will chime in and confirm what I'm thinking. I could be wrong but that's what I would do. __________________ Joe 1990 Bright Red ZR-1 #2599

10-02-2015	#5
Rd.adam@hotmail.com Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 9	Re: 2x NO START ZR-1's Thanks for a great reply ! What is a DIS ? On my black car, it had been started and running after the 3 yrs parked, it was idling ok, and seemed to rev up ok, but ran out of gas. Put new gas in, no start, decided to change fuel pumps and filter, then had good fuel pressure using gauge attached to fuel rail- just over 50 lbs, but has never started since. New spark plugs, all plugs sparking , seems to be getting fuel into cylinders using the BBQ lighter stuffed into spark plug holes and burning off my eye brows.... New battery fully charged, vats system bypassed, etc- nothing....not even a hint of firing on any cylinder, or in other words same as cranking engine over with no spark or no fuel. But all 8 plugs giving spark when out laying on top of engine. Is it possible to have all injectors fail at one time ?? Or possible to have coil packs all fail at same time ???? Is there a way to check crankshaft position sensor, and are they expensive and difficult to change ?? Thanks guys

10-02-2015	#6
vilant Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: PA Posts: 772	Re: 2x NO START ZR-1's Direct ignition system. Generally no. If the red one runs, although not well, I would take the crankshaft sensor off and put it on the black one to verify. Its a cheap part, Jerry Gaskets sells them. Just curious, was the plenum pulled off after it was running? If so, its very possible something is just unplugged. There's a lot of crap under there and easy to forget something. __________________ Joe 1990 Bright Red ZR-1 #2599

10-02-2015	#7
Jim Nolan Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 241	Re: 2x NO START ZR-1's Wow! If they have been sitting that long and they still had the original factory injectors that's the first place I'd look.

10-02-2015	#8
A26B Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Arcadia,OK Posts: 3,373	Re: 2x NO START ZR-1's Its not common but certainly not unheard of either. Mice do like the area under the plenum & chewing on wiring. I think a complete & thorough verification the fuel system is the first order of priority, considering you have no codes. This means removing the fuel pump sender, cleaning the tank out & replacing with fresh fuel..... all the way through, filter lines, etc & including the fuel injectors. Removing the rails & injectors should be part of the process. Don't overlook the filter & the rails. I had a customer returning a long stored ZR-1 that had fuel rails so plugged that he purchased replacements. Have your fuel injectors flow tested before dropping the big bucks on 2 new sets of injectors, if for no other reason than to eliminate fuel related problems for long enough to determine what you can rule out in the troubleshooting process. Confirm pressure & delivery after all components are cleaned & assembled. This is NOT to say that your stock injectors do not or will not need replaced. It is virtually a certainty for 90~92 model ZR-1's at some point. __________________ Jerry Downey JERRYS LT5 GASKETS & PARTS http://www.jerrysgaskets.com 1994 *ZR-1*, Black/Black, Lingenfelter Aerobody, 416cu in, 3.91 gears, coil-over susp, Brembo brakes, etc. 2016 Black-Red, 3LT-Z51 Auto 8-speed.

10-02-2015	#9
Rd.adam@hotmail.com Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 9	Re: 2x NO START ZR-1's I read somewhere about reading spark plugs while cranking engine with plugs laying loose on top of engine..... I think it said something like this: orange spark is weak, blue spark means strong. Anyone hear of this? I think mine were the orange color spark, but I will be retrying that test for sure. Also Jerry, what is cost of crankshaft sensor ? Is that sensor unique to the ZR-1? And what is cost of new plenum gaskets ? I think I will attempt removing injectors and getting them tested... Is that a difficult job, do I need special tools? I have never removed an injector or plenum before. Can injectors be tested without removal ? Can any dealership or even diesel injection place test them properly ?