Intermittent issue starting the car , VATS or starter problem? --- - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

alwayscode390 · 09-23-2014

I have had an intermittent problem with my 90' ZR-1 starting.

It has happened 3 times now, two times at the mechanics but ended up starting after sitting for about 15 minutes there.

It just happened right now and I couldnt get it to start even after sitting for 30 min.

I drove the car earlier today without issue.

Does it sound like a VATS issue or my starter dying?

When I go to start it , NOTHING ... no clicking or anything, the dash just lights up.

When I have the door open the SECURITY light flashes , but I am pretty sure it has always done that.

Thanks! ---

LGAFF · 09-23-2014

Most likely the clutch safety switch......can bypass it, pretty easy to do....but have to be careful when starting.

Although as a bonus, if you are ever stranded and need to move the car up a driveway could probably run it off the starter motor

LGAFF · 09-23-2014

http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread....Starting+issue

XfireZ51 · 09-23-2014

Yep, that clutch safety switch is just a bitch to get to.

alwayscode390 · 09-23-2014

So the clutch safety switch is depressed with the pedal , like the brake switch right?

I just swapped out the brake switch to get my 3rd brake light working again, about 2 months ago.

I actually just went outside and stood on the pedal with more force than normal. I could have sworn to hear a slight "click" from the pedal ... then it fired right up!

I may have tried starting it too quickly , the link Lee shared above stated that you should never try to start and push the clutch at the same time ... I will be more mindful of this from now on.

Thanks! ---

Paul Workman · 10-07-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by alwayscode390

So the clutch safety switch is depressed with the pedal , like the brake switch right?

No. Just the opposite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alwayscode390

I may have tried starting it too quickly , the link Lee shared above stated that you should never try to start and push the clutch at the same time ... I will be more mindful of this from now on.

Thanks! ---

The clutch (interlock) safety switch operates like the door (courtesy light) switch. When pressure (on the plunger) is released (as the clutch peddle is pressed) the switch closes and completes the circuit to the starter (on the 90-92s).

For 93 thru 95s the relatively high current is re-routed so that the start current by-passes the clutch pedal switch, significantly reducing clutch switch failing significantly...

Note: The (above) diagrams courtesy of Mark Haibeck's article from Heart Of The Beast).

Just this past week, I too experienced that clutch safety switch failing. This was in spite of being mindful to depress the clutch pedal completely before turning the ignition switch. The problem was foretold by the starting becoming "sketchy" (intermittent). For verification, I temporarily bypassed the switch, and now there is ZERO hesitation or erratic starting as I noted up to the time the switch finally did fail completely.

Here is a bypass circuit I designed to alleviate the load on the clutch switch for the 90-92 MY cars; moving the load to a more accessible, plug-in relay.

Of course simply by-passing (eliminating) the clutch safety switch eliminates the problem, and this aux. relay (above) would not be needed; so why bother?

Pros and Cons of keeping the switch:

Pro:

Safety. The car will not start unless the clutch is depressed.

Con:

1) The car can be started without having to climb into the drivers seat and depress the clutch. This is convenient in many situations.
2) It is possible to move the car a (very) short distance by rolling the starter alone should the engine be dead (for example).

fWIW,

Paul.

XfireZ51 · 10-07-2014

Agreed Paul. When I first got my current ZR, I experienced same thing. I made a jumper and bypassed the clutch switch. I continue to depress the pedal just as a precaution and ALWAYS make sure the shifter is in neutral.
But yeah there are times when it's convenient to be able to reach thru the window and just start the motor. One reason I made sure I had an eBrake w the C6Z rear calipers.

GOLDCYLON · 10-07-2014

Bypass it and dont look back.

Dynomite · 10-07-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOLDCYLON

Bypass it and dont look back.

Which way you look depends on if the Transmission is in Reverse or Forward gears when you start the LT5 without clutch depressed

Starting the engine in gear is always a chance and with you outside starting the LT5 through the window......well.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by XfireZ51

But yeah there are times when it's convenient to be able to reach thru the window and just start the motor. One reason I made sure I had an eBrake w the C6Z rear calipers.

I would do it right (Recondition the starter and install the Starter Relay) solving most ALL Non Start Issues

Starter Relay, Wiring Harness, and Plugs Tricks

max76 · 09-25-2014

Alwayscode390,I have the same problem, but i have already bypass vats system and clutch pedal...i also have new starter contact....
2 week ago i put a switch with the positive from battery and the purple wire (to the solenoid)....in the same time i put a new ground wire from the negative of the battery to the frame.
After all these modify i run all the sunday, with a lot of starting without any problem...
i hope it was a bad ground connection!!!!

09-23-2014	#1
alwayscode390 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: STL Posts: 492	Intermittent issue starting the car , VATS or starter problem? --- I have had an intermittent problem with my 90' ZR-1 starting. It has happened 3 times now, two times at the mechanics but ended up starting after sitting for about 15 minutes there. It just happened right now and I couldnt get it to start even after sitting for 30 min. I drove the car earlier today without issue. Does it sound like a VATS issue or my starter dying? When I go to start it , NOTHING ... no clicking or anything, the dash just lights up. When I have the door open the SECURITY light flashes , but I am pretty sure it has always done that. Thanks! --- __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] 01' Dodge Viper GTS 11' Ford Raptor 90' ZR-1 Corvette LPE #699

09-23-2014	#2
LGAFF Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Crystal Lake, IL Posts: 7,186	Re: Intermittent issue starting the car , VATS or starter problem? --- Most likely the clutch safety switch......can bypass it, pretty easy to do....but have to be careful when starting. Although as a bonus, if you are ever stranded and need to move the car up a driveway could probably run it off the starter motor __________________ LGAFF 90 #966-150K miles-sold 92 #234-sold 1987 Callaway TT #17 1991 ZR-1 #1359

09-23-2014	#3
LGAFF Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Crystal Lake, IL Posts: 7,186	Re: Intermittent issue starting the car , VATS or starter problem? --- http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread....Starting+issue __________________ LGAFF 90 #966-150K miles-sold 92 #234-sold 1987 Callaway TT #17 1991 ZR-1 #1359

09-23-2014	#4
XfireZ51 Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chicagoland, IL Posts: 9,662	Re: Intermittent issue starting the car , VATS or starter problem? --- Yep, that clutch safety switch is just a bitch to get to. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Former Membership Chairman Former ZR-1 Registry - BOD 1972 Corvette 4speed base Coupe SOLD long time ago 1984 Corvette Z-51/4+3 SOLD 1992 Corvette ZR-1 Aqua/Gray #474 SOLD 1992 Corvette ZR-1 Black Rose/Cognac #458 2014 Honda VFR Interceptor DX

09-23-2014	#5
alwayscode390 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: STL Posts: 492	Re: Intermittent issue starting the car , VATS or starter problem? --- So the clutch safety switch is depressed with the pedal , like the brake switch right? I just swapped out the brake switch to get my 3rd brake light working again, about 2 months ago. I actually just went outside and stood on the pedal with more force than normal. I could have sworn to hear a slight "click" from the pedal ... then it fired right up! I may have tried starting it too quickly , the link Lee shared above stated that you should never try to start and push the clutch at the same time ... I will be more mindful of this from now on. Thanks! --- __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] 01' Dodge Viper GTS 11' Ford Raptor 90' ZR-1 Corvette LPE #699

10-07-2014	#7
XfireZ51 Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chicagoland, IL Posts: 9,662	Re: Intermittent issue starting the car , VATS or starter problem? --- Agreed Paul. When I first got my current ZR, I experienced same thing. I made a jumper and bypassed the clutch switch. I continue to depress the pedal just as a precaution and ALWAYS make sure the shifter is in neutral. But yeah there are times when it's convenient to be able to reach thru the window and just start the motor. One reason I made sure I had an eBrake w the C6Z rear calipers. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Former Membership Chairman Former ZR-1 Registry - BOD 1972 Corvette 4speed base Coupe SOLD long time ago 1984 Corvette Z-51/4+3 SOLD 1992 Corvette ZR-1 Aqua/Gray #474 SOLD 1992 Corvette ZR-1 Black Rose/Cognac #458 2014 Honda VFR Interceptor DX

10-07-2014	#8
GOLDCYLON Join Date: May 2007 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 9,152	Re: Intermittent issue starting the car , VATS or starter problem? --- Bypass it and dont look back. __________________ GOLDCYLON - 91 ZR-1 #2014 GOLDCYLON - 90 ZR-1 #2794, 4L60e (Formerly Schrade's) GOLDCYLON - 11 CTS-V Arizona State Director 91 WHITE/BLACK #2014. 380 P&P&PCed,Ported Heads, Jeal Long tubes, Corsa Exhaust/FIKSE FM-5s /LED TLs, LED Headlights, Front Wilwood 6 piston narrowlite calipers and rear Wilwood caliper street shop mod,CNCed Coolant Pipes,TPI Cvr,Filter cover,Stainless Bolts, DRM/DOM PROM /ZFDOC mod build #102,DRLs,BMAD with stainless Debris Screen,Coplan Air Blaster, Pioneer APP Radio 4,Brey-Krause HB,Sub Bar,Fire extinguisher seat mount,DRM Coilovers,LEDs everywhere,Compass mirror (orange),V1 DIC hidden display, Homelink sun visor, Carbon Fiber top x3 and APSIS Carbon Fiber interior, APSIS CF Steering Wheel/NAPA Leather, Banski trailing arms, Guldstrand front suspension,urethane bushings from Prothane (total suspension) ZFDoc drive shaft safety loop, raptor shift light (orange),AO engineering louver front plate, Console seat cushion, 96CE seats with black custom Sheepskins, ss billet catch can,Viper remote entry/alarm,Cragar Rear Louvers,LED side louver lights, Dewitts Radiator with SPAL fans and a Woods 160 T-Stat 90 RED/BLACK #2794. 4L60e Automatic Stage V by RPM Transmission, TCI Dedicated TCM, OBX Stainless Headers, Corsa Exhaust, SAN Secondaries and Haibeck PROM, Exotic Muscle Coil overs, LED Interior Lights, LED Tail Lights, LED Headlights, 94 Sport seats with black custom Sheepskins , Cragar rear louvers, GS Front calipers, Banski Trailing arms, APSIS Carbon Fiber steering wheel, Front and Rear Baer Eradispeeds, DRLs, Guldstrand front suspension,urethane bushings from Prothane (total suspension), Dewitt's Raditor with Dual SPAL fans and a Haibeck 170 T-Stat 11 RED/GREY CTS-V

09-25-2014	#10
max76 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: ITALY Posts: 264	Re: Intermittent issue starting the car , VATS or starter problem? --- Alwayscode390,I have the same problem, but i have already bypass vats system and clutch pedal...i also have new starter contact.... 2 week ago i put a switch with the positive from battery and the purple wire (to the solenoid)....in the same time i put a new ground wire from the negative of the battery to the frame. After all these modify i run all the sunday, with a lot of starting without any problem... i hope it was a bad ground connection!!!!