Buzzing noises from glove box - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

karlaw · 09-24-2017

I put 2 new fuel pumps in, got 50 lbs pressure, turn key to ON position, and jump start to purple wire....car fires good and runs 2 seconds and dies, have to wait 5-10 minutes to retry.
BUT when I turn key to ON, I get buzzing noise from glove box area, and speedo cluster goes dead, NO Security light working. The buzzing only lasts 5-10 seconds then quits.
Any ideas out there ?

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QB93Z · 10-03-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by karlaw

I put 2 new fuel pumps in, got 50 lbs pressure, turn key to ON position, and jump start to purple wire....car fires good and runs 2 seconds and dies, have to wait 5-10 minutes to retry.
BUT when I turn key to ON, I get buzzing noise from glove box area, and speedo cluster goes dead, NO Security light working. The buzzing only lasts 5-10 seconds then quits.
Any ideas out there ?

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There seem to be several different things in you questions.

Instrument cluster going dead with key ON is a serious problem that needs to be fixed before you do other trouble shooting. This kind of electrical problem can cause many unsuspected problems. Is the speedo cluster "Not dead" when the key is OFF? Your description is confusing.

Why do you "jump start to the purple wire"? When you turn the ignition switch to start, does the engine crank?

Is the engine "cold" when the stall in 2-3 seconds happens or is this a restart of an operating temperature engine?

I recommend that you work on one thing at a time.

Jim

karlaw · 10-03-2017

With the key Off, cluster is dead. With key in ON position, I am getting some noises from glove box area.
With key turned to START, everything goes dead. Then turn key to OFF, wait 5-10 minutes, turn key to ON, then I jumpstart under the hood using jumper wire from battery to the purple wire, the starter activates and cranks engine properly, and engine will fire and sometimes tries to run for 3-4 seconds while starter still engaged, but then quits firing before I remove jumper wire. I wait a few seconds, and try the jumper again and engine cranks over freely but will not fire. I then turn key to OFF position and wait 5-10 minutes, then begin process again with same results: engine fires good on first 5 seconds of jump starting, then no more firing until a 10 min wait.

This is always on cold engine as car has not run in months.
I have a 1990 FSM, but last night I discovered that section 8A is missing from manual, that is the Electrical Trouble Shooting section that I need. My understanding is that is a separate booklet, I bought my FSM for $100 from Craig's list.

As far as I understand, the VATS is bypassed as I have a VATS INTERAGATOR hooked up to the wires at the base of steering column.
I have also swapped ECM from my other zr1, nothing changes.

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QB93Z · 10-04-2017

Can you post some pictures of the battery terminals and the location of the jumper to the purple wire.

Or if posting a pic is difficult, email or message the pic to me, jim@gizmosart.com, 443-244-1347

I suspect that you have a bad battery cable connection or a damaged battery cable and that you are powering the car's electronics through the jumper to the purple wire.

With the ignition key ON, does the Instrument cluster light up? Do you see the indicators on the Driver Information Console above the AC controls?

You may also have an electrical ground problem. You may be powering parts of the car through the wiring under the dash. This can cause melted wires and costly repairs. I saw it happen on a ZR-1 here in Maryland.

Yes, you need to buy Volume 2 of the FSM to get the troubleshooting portions and the wiring diagrams.

I recommend NOT trying to start the car if the electrical system is not working properly. You have proven that the engine can crank and fire so you know that you have fuel and spark. You don't need to run the engine until you get the electrical system working correctly.

Jim

karlaw · 10-05-2017

Hi, I towed the car into my shop. The shop was dark inside when I got in the car and took photos of the gauges.
I noticed the interior lights in door panels not working. But when I tried the key ON and my battery to purple wire jumper, again on first try car tries to run for 3 seconds, then ......
Suddenly the interior and door panel lights turn on at exact moment as engine quits firing ! Turn key to OFF, waited 10 minutes for the interior lights to turn themselves off.
No longer getting noises from glove box area, after I played around with heater controls.
With key turned to ON:
Speedo cluster "check gauges" and "door ajar" light up.
DIC : "Full engine power, Infl rest, Service Engine Soon, and battery icon....they all light up.

Then key to START: engine never cranks,
SPEEDO: the "Brake light" also comes on with Check Gauges and Door Ajar.
DIC: the "Infl Rest" light goes out, other 3 stay on.

I could not get the background SPEEDO lights to turn on at anytime despite playing with headlights and dimmer switch. Nor could I activate interior lights , except the interior lights would always come on by themselves after my 3 sec starting attempt. Also noted on interior lights , I could not get them to turn off...except for turn key to OFF and wait 10 min.
Next Wednesday I am getting the section 8A FSM supplement for electrical diagnosis, costing $100.

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QB93Z · 10-05-2017

I got the pictures that you sent. Good Job.

In pic 1 of 7 is that a T-connector to the purple wire?

In pic 4, the battery voltage appears to be low. Can you put a charger on the battery or connect a battery tender?

I will need to do some research on the VATS Interrogator connections. Did you connect the VI? Do you have a correct ignition key for the car? Are you just using the VI as a way to bypass the VATS system?

Jim

karlaw · 10-05-2017

Farm style T connector, just bared the wires and twist together

Yes, good eye on the low voltage. At full charge, nothing seems to change, but batt charger going back on
I have correct original key, have cleaned contacts. Simply unplug the lower steering column connectors, then plug and play the matching VI plugs.

Yes, using the VI to hopefully bypass the key chip thing. I also bought a matchbox size aftermarket gizmo for $30 that has 15 toggle switches to choose the correct resistor size, which according to the VI is key chip #3.

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QB93Z · 10-05-2017

In addition to VATS (the chip on the key) there is a Theft Deterrent System (TDS) on these cars. I will have to read up on the specifics again but basically if the CCM does not sense the correct sequence of door unlock, door open and ignition key turn to Start, the starter sequence is blocked. Since there may be an issue with the interior lights you mentioned, there may be a TDS problem going on.

Keep in mind that VATS and TDS not only block starter operation (the purple wire) but also turn off the fuel pumps and the ignition (spark) system. I will have to review the manual to get the specifics.

I will do some homework tonight.

Jim

QB93Z · 10-05-2017

I may be incorrect about the TDS and start enable. The service manual is not clear on whether a TDS unauthorized entry signal to the CCM causes the CCM to block start enable. Also I couldn't find any circuitry that disables the Ignition System in the 1990 FSM.

So, the next recommendation I have is to check if the fuel pumps run when the ignition key is turned to ON. They should be running. You can check for fuel pressure by connecting a gauge to the fuel test connection on the front end of the right side fuel rail. The connection is facing the back of the alternator. With Key ON and Engine OFF, the fuel pressure should be ~50 psi. Note the 1990 Service Manual does not show this circuitry (that I could find).

Jim

karlaw · 10-07-2017

Fuel pressure goes to 50 lbs, while cranking, and with key ON also goes to 50psi. Also used Goldycon's wire crossover at the tank to switch pumps around, and same results. So it appears all is well for fuel pump pressures.
Key ON is 50 lbs, key OFF it goes down to 43 and 10 min later still about 40 psi.

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09-24-2017	#1
karlaw Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Alberta Posts: 87	Buzzing noises from glove box I put 2 new fuel pumps in, got 50 lbs pressure, turn key to ON position, and jump start to purple wire....car fires good and runs 2 seconds and dies, have to wait 5-10 minutes to retry. BUT when I turn key to ON, I get buzzing noise from glove box area, and speedo cluster goes dead, NO Security light working. The buzzing only lasts 5-10 seconds then quits. Any ideas out there ? Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry __________________ LT5

10-04-2017	#4
QB93Z Join Date: May 2007 Location: Westminster, Maryland Posts: 3,687	Re: Buzzing noises from glove box Can you post some pictures of the battery terminals and the location of the jumper to the purple wire. Or if posting a pic is difficult, email or message the pic to me, jim@gizmosart.com, 443-244-1347 I suspect that you have a bad battery cable connection or a damaged battery cable and that you are powering the car's electronics through the jumper to the purple wire. With the ignition key ON, does the Instrument cluster light up? Do you see the indicators on the Driver Information Console above the AC controls? You may also have an electrical ground problem. You may be powering parts of the car through the wiring under the dash. This can cause melted wires and costly repairs. I saw it happen on a ZR-1 here in Maryland. Yes, you need to buy Volume 2 of the FSM to get the troubleshooting portions and the wiring diagrams. I recommend NOT trying to start the car if the electrical system is not working properly. You have proven that the engine can crank and fire so you know that you have fuel and spark. You don't need to run the engine until you get the electrical system working correctly. Jim

10-05-2017	#5
karlaw Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Alberta Posts: 87	Re: Buzzing noises from glove box Hi, I towed the car into my shop. The shop was dark inside when I got in the car and took photos of the gauges. I noticed the interior lights in door panels not working. But when I tried the key ON and my battery to purple wire jumper, again on first try car tries to run for 3 seconds, then ...... Suddenly the interior and door panel lights turn on at exact moment as engine quits firing ! Turn key to OFF, waited 10 minutes for the interior lights to turn themselves off. No longer getting noises from glove box area, after I played around with heater controls. With key turned to ON: Speedo cluster "check gauges" and "door ajar" light up. DIC : "Full engine power, Infl rest, Service Engine Soon, and battery icon....they all light up. Then key to START: engine never cranks, SPEEDO: the "Brake light" also comes on with Check Gauges and Door Ajar. DIC: the "Infl Rest" light goes out, other 3 stay on. I could not get the background SPEEDO lights to turn on at anytime despite playing with headlights and dimmer switch. Nor could I activate interior lights , except the interior lights would always come on by themselves after my 3 sec starting attempt. Also noted on interior lights , I could not get them to turn off...except for turn key to OFF and wait 10 min. Next Wednesday I am getting the section 8A FSM supplement for electrical diagnosis, costing $100. Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry __________________ LT5

10-05-2017	#6
QB93Z Join Date: May 2007 Location: Westminster, Maryland Posts: 3,687	Re: Buzzing noises from glove box I got the pictures that you sent. Good Job. In pic 1 of 7 is that a T-connector to the purple wire? In pic 4, the battery voltage appears to be low. Can you put a charger on the battery or connect a battery tender? I will need to do some research on the VATS Interrogator connections. Did you connect the VI? Do you have a correct ignition key for the car? Are you just using the VI as a way to bypass the VATS system? Jim

10-05-2017	#7
karlaw Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Alberta Posts: 87	Re: Buzzing noises from glove box Farm style T connector, just bared the wires and twist together Yes, good eye on the low voltage. At full charge, nothing seems to change, but batt charger going back on I have correct original key, have cleaned contacts. Simply unplug the lower steering column connectors, then plug and play the matching VI plugs. Yes, using the VI to hopefully bypass the key chip thing. I also bought a matchbox size aftermarket gizmo for $30 that has 15 toggle switches to choose the correct resistor size, which according to the VI is key chip #3. Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry __________________ LT5

10-03-2017	#3
karlaw Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Alberta Posts: 87	Re: Buzzing noises from glove box With the key Off, cluster is dead. With key in ON position, I am getting some noises from glove box area. With key turned to START, everything goes dead. Then turn key to OFF, wait 5-10 minutes, turn key to ON, then I jumpstart under the hood using jumper wire from battery to the purple wire, the starter activates and cranks engine properly, and engine will fire and sometimes tries to run for 3-4 seconds while starter still engaged, but then quits firing before I remove jumper wire. I wait a few seconds, and try the jumper again and engine cranks over freely but will not fire. I then turn key to OFF position and wait 5-10 minutes, then begin process again with same results: engine fires good on first 5 seconds of jump starting, then no more firing until a 10 min wait. This is always on cold engine as car has not run in months. I have a 1990 FSM, but last night I discovered that section 8A is missing from manual, that is the Electrical Trouble Shooting section that I need. My understanding is that is a separate booklet, I bought my FSM for $100 from Craig's list. As far as I understand, the VATS is bypassed as I have a VATS INTERAGATOR hooked up to the wires at the base of steering column. I have also swapped ECM from my other zr1, nothing changes. Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry __________________ LT5

10-07-2017	#10
karlaw Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Alberta Posts: 87	Re: Buzzing noises from glove box Fuel pressure goes to 50 lbs, while cranking, and with key ON also goes to 50psi. Also used Goldycon's wire crossover at the tank to switch pumps around, and same results. So it appears all is well for fuel pump pressures. Key ON is 50 lbs, key OFF it goes down to 43 and 10 min later still about 40 psi. Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry __________________ LT5