Changing clutch – can I do this myself?

[scottfab]

Originally Posted by rhipsher

I strongly suggest installing the beam plates. And I think most here would agree. Unless you have small hands the size of a 6 year old you will save youself allot of time and trouble not only trying to menuver both the nuts up in there but menuvering an 18MM wrench up in that tight space and getting enough leverage on it to tighten them. Sorry Scott I totally disagree with skipping it.

I guess I've just never had much problem with getting each nut back on. I takes very little coordination to slide the nut one at a time up there and hold it there between your index and middle finger then push the bolt up to engage it. As far as getting a 18mm wrench up there, what for? A crescent wrench is shorter and works fine. So I guess it comes down to how much $ you think holding 4 nuts in place is worth. As for the other reported benefits, I think if I spent that kind of $ on it I'd say they were wonderful too.

On the other hand if you have the time to wait for the order to come in and you think you'll be tearing the C beam out a lot, go for it. You can list it as on of the performance improvements you made to the car.

[scottfab]

Originally Posted by Paul Workman

2) In fact the plates were designed to address the problem of slippage and squirming at the beam joints, resulting in the rear end wanting to kick out under WOT. The first time I pulled the beam off my Z I noticed the holes in the beam at the differential were oval - indicating the joint had been shuttling back and forth a bit. (I haven't experienced the rear kicking out with the plates in place, FWIW.)

P.

This is called "Torque steer" and it is a combination of frame movement and C beam twist. It can be aggravated by loose C beam fasteners. To my knowledge no one has measured this effect with or without these magic plates. But there is lots of anecdotal evidence they improve torque steer and improve mileage. There is still some slop in the C beam holes and the bolt even with the plates.
The best overall reason to buy beam plates is if you just can't hold the hardware on top of the C beam and you think your work may need to be redone soon.

[Paul Workman]

Originally Posted by scottfab

This is called "Torque steer" and it is a combination of frame movement and C beam twist. It can be aggravated by loose C beam fasteners. To my knowledge no one has measured this effect with or without these magic plates. But there is lots of anecdotal evidence they improve torque steer and improve mileage. There is still some slop in the C beam holes and the bolt even with the plates.
The best overall reason to buy beam plates is if you just can't hold the hardware on top of the C beam and you think your work may need to be redone soon.

Really???? I'm throwing down the guantlet here...

A few things you said here raises some flags:

"This is called "Torque steer"...To my knowledge no one has measured this effect with or without these magic plates...There is still some slop in the C beam holes and the bolt even with the plates." Those statements seem to be in conflict. No one has measured...still some slop...'magic plates'"?? If no one has measured, how do we know there's still some slop??

To the best of your knowledge no one has objective data on the effect of the beam plates as it relates to steering stability, YET there is objective data to show movement remains in spite of the plates??

And your referral to them as "magic plates" suggests (to me) either some subjectivity or perhaps some specific (untold) knowledge allowing you to scoff at the plates? If there is a objective source, please enlighten us!

In the mean time, I suppose the debate on their effectiveness is open. Pete said he doesn't use them, and we've seen him lauch as hard as anyone. But, after installing the plates the lateral "kick" I experienced on my Z was gone.

Was the improvement on my car due to the plates, or simply re-torquing the bolts??...I dunno. But, I will say this: In my experience with the C beam removal and reinstallation (especially) without the plates it was such a mo-fo PIA!! The first time I installed the "magic plates" (your words) they completely transformed the entire chore of removing and reinstalling the C beam to the point of not even having to give it a second thought! If you try them, especially if your hands are average to large, you might change your mind. "Magic plates"? You might be right about them - at least in some regard!



P.

[scottfab]

Originally Posted by Paul Workman

To the best of your knowledge no one has objective data on the effect of the beam plates as it relates to steering stability, YET there is objective data to show movement remains in spite of the plates??

Not sure I follow. Objective data to me means (as Hib would say) a quantifiable measurement. e.g. 1.5 deg of negative camber on the RF is reduced to 0.5 deg.

Originally Posted by Paul Workman

And your referral to them as "magic plates" suggests (to me) either some subjectivity or perhaps some specific (untold) knowledge allowing you to scoff at the plates? If there is a objective source, please enlighten us!

Not at all. I know of no one that has spent the $ that is willing to come forward and say there was no difference in torque steer. (believe me that is what it's called) . Just as with turn of the century elixirs that were sold to "fix what ails you" the proof goes the other way to wit. Proof that it does not work to cure all ills is impossible. Proof that it cures something specific should be possible. I await any such measurement.

Originally Posted by Paul Workman

In the mean time, I suppose the debate on their effectiveness is open. Pete said he doesn't use them, and we've seen him lauch as hard as anyone. But, after installing the plates the lateral "kick" I experienced on my Z was gone.

I do not doubt you feel some difference. I felt a difference too when I reinstalled my C beam and tightened the bolts good. and tight.

Originally Posted by Paul Workman

Was the improvement on my car due to the plates, or simply re-torquing the bolts??...I dunno. But, I will say this: In my experience with the C beam removal and reinstallation (especially) without the plates it was such a mo-fo PIA!! The first time I installed the "magic plates" (your words) they completely transformed the entire chore of removing and reinstalling the C beam to the point of not even having to give it a second thought! If you try them, especially if your hands are average to large, you might change your mind. "Magic plates"? You might be right about them - at least in some regard!

This I don't doubt either. I have no doubt at all that these plates make this task easier. How much easier is completely subjective. I worked out a sequence (after the third time) that works like a well choreographed dance. It's like removing and reinstalling the fuel pumps. Once you work out the dance it's no big deal. Then if you describe the dance to someone they can do it too.

P.

[rhipsher]

Aman to that Paul. Not only does the simple design eliminate the nuts but the added thickness of the SS plats give you more beef and strength to prevent the cbeam holes from wallering out. Aluminum is pretty soft stuff. Before installing the plates my car would kick out to the right. The drag strip christmas tree operator looked worried as my car would come right toward him until i straightened out. Not anymore. The car goes straight. Im able to powerslide the car around any corner an controle where it goes.

[rhipsher]

Always happy to display the added benefits of the beam plates.

[tf95ZR1]

Do NOT over-tighten the "C" beam bolts,
plates or not (I have them) especially by the transmission.
Ask me how I know...

[scottfab]

Gary
whether you put the magic plates in or not, do focus on those things
that really matter like your clutch plate and surfaces AND the
rear bolts on the bell housing. It was touched on in this thread
but needs more info shared .
Two of the rear bolts are grounding points for various things on the car.
You should clean the bell housing surface and the grounding lugs then apply dielectric grease to them before reinstalling the bolts.
This won't improve your gas mileage or times at the drag strip but will keep you from having to go back in and deal with it later.
When there are grounding problems there the symptoms are wildly unexpected and varied from car to car. No fun.

Later if you really want to improve things that mover around under WOT there is a really good thread going on stiffening the frame to avoid torque steer here.
http://zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17491

[ghlkal]

Thanks to everyone for their helpful suggestions

I've made a list to keep track of it all.

I contacted Pete and he's agreed to change the clutch at a great price and he'll even let me help We plan on doing this in a week or so.

I'm not sure why I'm hesitant about doing this myself - I guess it's because it's the first major job on my "new" Z and I don't want to screw up and take 3 weeks. I've really learned a lot between your posts and talking with Bill Boudreau and Jim Jandik.

[LGAFF]

It will be 100 times easier on a lft and 2 hands woulds really help, plus Pete is a pro and it will be a great experience