Serious Concerns Over Parts Availability

[Hog]

From a performance perspective: The advantages of Coil Near Plug (CNP) over a single coil system as used on the GEN-II LT1/4 can be marked. The advantages over a multicoil system such as is used on the 90-95 DOHC LT5 are much less, the plug wires are a lot shorter.

Much of anything fun comes down to money. Sometimes it takes more than average to overcome the will of some to hold onto "rare" components. I'd love to see how many SLP T-Rams are actually installed on cars compared to the number that are hid away somewhere for bragging rights alone.
I was disgusted to see Ferrari V-12 cam blanks for some disgustingly low price. The guy had hundreds of them. Different story for our LT5s, though the custom ones that are available are pure engine porn.

[rkreigh]

no doubt the factory ignition works great until it doesn't the DIS is going for stooopid money just like thermostat housings and other odds and ends


I've set myself out to wear out as many of these parts as possible rather than worry about getting them.


I haven't had any serious worries and always able to work around the issue at hand


I'd worry more about not using the car


life is too short not to

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by rkreigh

I'm confused why everyone wants to rip out the lt5 when it's some of the electronics that are rare. Jerry is working on the DIS and as soon as some one needs one let me know.

There were a couple tongue in cheek comments about it, but I don't think anyone is advocating ripping out LT5s...

I'll sell you mine and use the money for putting a megasquirt on it. coil on plug is WAY better than coil packs and the megasquirt offers a very affordable option to the unobtanium DIS parts. keep in mind there are 7000 of these made and they rarely fail. by the time they do Jerry is likely to have completed a solution. GM isn't going to share tech data guys, they won't even give out dyno sheets for goodness sake so that's not going to happen. And as Jerry will attest, reverse engineering is very hard work.

Even with megaquirt, COP wouldn't be a plug and play affair. Just getting the megasquirt running well with a stock engine and DIS is not for the layman. I am setting one up now on a 1991.

We don't have a lot of high mileage engines to say exactly how often they fail. They are electronic and in a high heat area. Eventually they will fail.

The GM issue has already been address in this thread. We know they are zero help.

yes, there are many parts that can be tough to get, but gents like Jerry and many talented folks step up to address that. In the age of 3d printing and modern electronics, with a bit of work, the old gal can be updated to use the new stuff. racers do it all the time and it's really not as hard as some would think.

Racers also spend 10-15k putting modern sensors and new controllers on engines. They spend money that can't be justified on weekend cars, or even daily drivers. Not only that, but they aren't worried about compatibility with other systems on the car, creature comforts, etc.

we have the technology to keep the beast alive despite the challenges as long as there is a desire and some $ to do so.

Not "some" money, lots of money. I would be curious what Jerry has invested in development work alone, let alone inventory. At some point, there won't be enough other parts to share costs with. There are parts that would be cost prohibitive for even Jerry to justify. Not saying there won't be work arounds, but then you get back to the issue of originality and collectability.

Originally Posted by Hog

Much of anything fun comes down to money. Sometimes it takes more than average to overcome the will of some to hold onto "rare" components. I'd love to see how many SLP T-Rams are actually installed on cars compared to the number that are hid away somewhere for bragging rights alone.
I was disgusted to see Ferrari V-12 cam blanks for some disgustingly low price. The guy had hundreds of them. Different story for our LT5s, though the custom ones that are available are pure engine porn.

The majority of spare parts for these cars remain unused. But like you said, people letting go of them is a different story. It does seem to go in waves though.

Originally Posted by rkreigh

no doubt the factory ignition works great until it doesn't the DIS is going for stooopid money just like thermostat housings and other odds and ends

Jerry's new unit should curb that. NOS units will still bring a premium for those wanting originality.

Originally Posted by KJL

Are the ECMs, DIS and CDMs interchangeable between model years? That would be helpful info to have. What would happen if I plugged my 95 ECM into my 92? Or are they split between 90-93 and 93-95?

DIS swaps across all years. ECMs swap across all years as long as you swap the chip. Can't speak to the other modules.



The big picture here is this: Despite their perceived and or real reliability, as a whole, the population is only accruing miles. As that mileage increases, statistical probability dictates that parts of the system will fail. I do both statistical process control and statistical reliability engineering for the engines our company produces.

Every mechanical system fails given enough time and/or cycles. We've already seen failure modes in these engines and as the mileage goes up, the probability of failure does as well. It also goes up for many parts as a function of age alone and not necessarily use (capacitors, seals, o-rings, etc.)

There are a lot of cars that are just now breaking out of the low mileage barrier as more and more are turned from collectors into drivers. In the next 5-10 years we will see more failures than ever. That is just a mathematical fact. The only thing that would prevent that is if every single owner stopped driving them tomorrow and never drove them again.

[rkreigh]

I'd like to see more development done on the Megasquirt. the hardware and software for that solution looks solid, and I'd love to run the coil on plug to eliminate the DIS as the megasquirt will drive the coils just fine.


I realize that was easier to do with the "plug and play" wiring approach, I just don't want to go that direction. the ecotec Saturn sky coils seem to be a potential fit and I remember a gent posting about boat coils being adapted.


It's not that the DIS doesn't work, it's that COP works well and allows the DIS to be used by those that need it to help offset the cost of the upgrade.


Just the MSPro is around 1200 which is fairly cheap considering the functionality it provides. Much faster processing, and better overall engine management and fail safe capabilities.



I don't care about the mileage or security system, what else do I lose with the lack of ccm interfaces?


seems like if you splice into the factory wiring rather than eliminate the factory ecm it could potentiall work better. Like to hear more thoughts on this.


That's the approach the c5 guys do that with the dominator and haltec computers, seems like it might also be feasible on the ZR-1.


good thread, graham and Gerry thanks for the "plan A" approach which looks like it's coming to fruition and is clearly simple and works~!


for the hot rodders, the megasquirt solution doesn't sound cost prohibitive in comparison to the DIS replacement.

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by rkreigh

I'd like to see more development done on the Megasquirt. the hardware and software for that solution looks solid, and I'd love to run the coil on plug to eliminate the DIS as the megasquirt will drive the coils just fine.


I realize that was easier to do with the "plug and play" wiring approach, I just don't want to go that direction. the ecotec Saturn sky coils seem to be a potential fit and I remember a gent posting about boat coils being adapted.


It's not that the DIS doesn't work, it's that COP works well and allows the DIS to be used by those that need it to help offset the cost of the upgrade.

The cost of even a NOS DIS until today is hundreds cheaper than just the megasquirt ECU with no custom dyno tuning for your car.

Just the MSPro is around 1200 which is fairly cheap considering the functionality it provides. Much faster processing, and better overall engine management and fail safe capabilities.

The DIYAutotune unit is an MS3Pro unit with the proper internal wiring, external plugs and case dimensions to fit our cars. That being said, that unit will run you 2700-2800. Simply doing it yourself with a generic MS kit would require a knowledge of these engines electrical systems and sensors, as well as a knowledge of the megasquirt system WELL beyond the capability of 99% of ZR1 owners.

A person has to decide if driving the car is the hobby, or reinventing the wheel is the hobby.

I don't care about the mileage or security system, what else do I lose with the lack of ccm interfaces?

I believe fuel mileage/trip calculator is the only thing lost with the current unit. And that system has been cracked, so when DIYAutotune decides, they should be able to figure it out.

seems like if you splice into the factory wiring rather than eliminate the factory ecm it could potentiall work better. Like to hear more thoughts on this.

Not sure what you're asking here. The advantage of the plug and play DIYAutotune unit is that it uses the standard plugs, so should you choose to find a factory ECM in the future you could return it to stock. You also eliminate the possible failure point of bad connections in splices. If you mean retain the factory ECM to control some things and use the megasquirt to control other things, I'm sure that could be done, but it would be messy.

That's the approach the c5 guys do that with the dominator and haltec computers, seems like it might also be feasible on the ZR-1.

They have complete stand alone computers and harnesses for LS engines, so I'm not sure what they aren't doing specifically with the dominator or haltech computers.

good thread, graham and Gerry thanks for the "plan A" approach which looks like it's coming to fruition and is clearly simple and works~!


for the hot rodders, the megasquirt solution doesn't sound cost prohibitive in comparison to the DIS replacement.

For a stock motor, it is cost prohibitive, by a large margin. You could buy a used ECM and DIS combined for hundreds less than the cost of the DIYAutotune MS unit.

The info I have.

[KJL]

Speaking of hard to find parts.....anyone know a cheap source for the spare tire? Mine are old and beginning to dry rot and can't hold pressure for very long. I found the tire online but it costs a small fortune and then I need to have it mounted....

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by KJL

Speaking of hard to find parts.....anyone know a cheap source for the spare tire? Mine are old and beginning to dry rot and can't hold pressure for very long. I found the tire online but it costs a small fortune and then I need to have it mounted....

https://www.ebay.com/i/142899741296?chn=ps

[Mystic ZR-1]

Spare tire on EBay:
Not a bad price and condition!
But it doesn't have ZR-1 and the date written
on it in yellow tire crayon from the factory...
WWNCRSD?