Re: Windshield
 

I'd say it was a wise (Owl) decision rather than a chicken move, Craig. Interestingly, I got a small stone crack (1/4") this morning when I took the Zee for a 20-mile run which included a quick "activate the secondaries" segment which is when I encountered the stone from a semi. I don't have much delam, so I am hoping this does not spread.

Re: Windshield
 

Mahalo for your thoughts there Bob! Sorry to hear about the stone and crack. I hope that can be repaired by injection or something. I'm curious to know the percentage of our car that have no delamination....those are the very lucky folks. :cheers:

Re: Windshield
 

You can have the crack drilled and sealed if it's from an edge or sealed if it's in the middle . The earlier the better

Re: Windshield
 

What causes delamination?

Why did GM install delaminated windshields?

Re: Windshield
 

Poor preparation... Gm also have a similar windshield in a small van around the same time that had no issues.

Re: Windshield
 

Poor prep? It's a ZR1 ... the flagship American sports car! :censored:

Re: Windshield
 

Bob, that's normally covered under your Comprehensive insurance (usually low deductible) and my experience (with Met) is that they will send an expert out to look at it and, if not directly in your field of view or causing a big crack already, they will fill it with epoxy for no charge. They use a vacuum device that essentially sucks the epoxy into the chip. If directly in your field of vision or a large crack it will have to be replaced. I had one on my BMW that was to right of center and they filled it and it has been fine. I can still see it from inside but it is not in my normal field of vision driving. --Bob

Re: Windshield
 

Ray, the ZR-1 had some limitations with its air conditioning system so GM required a windshield with a metallic film in it to assist in reflecting heat away from the inside of the cabin. This is why we have a cutout at the base of our windshields for the "garage door opener". Obviously this was a low volume run due to the low ZR-1 volume; they are no longer reproduced. Most ZR-1 windshields show some degree of lamination, although I don't know that the delamination problem was known to GM while they were in production. According to Marc Haibeck the later years seems the worst, and certainly the very worst I have seen is the last produced ('95 #448) which has spent its entire life in the Corvette Museum. Also I recall that the purple 95 that Jim bought had a lot of delam and I believe he replaced the windshield with a standard Corvette one. Perhaps he could comment on this. My car has a little around the edges. Some have none. But it is certainly quite common. Go to any gathering of ZR-1s and look at them. -Bob

Re: Windshield
 

Thanks Bob.

Re: Windshield
 

Thanks, Bob - good advice! Thanks also for the rationale (note to Ray) for the special lamination; it makes sense but hadn't seen it presented that way before.

Interesting you mention the last ZR-1; I was quite surprised to see the delam on it when I first visited NCM many years ago. With this car having spent its entire life within a climate-controlled environment at NCM, it certainly confirms that environmental conditions (UV rays, etc.) has little or nothing to do with the problem.

On a positive note, it does not seem that delamination creeps much over time; at least mine has not noticeably changed in a decade.

Bob

Re: Windshield
 

If you explain the construction/fabrication of the windshield some vendors/installers might decline the "repair" and I'd be sure to ask the installer/technician that was assigned the job if he understood the construction/fabrication and if it's a certified/warrantable repair.

Re: Windshield
 

I have an appointment with Safelite on Monday to get rid of this windshield :)

This is number 72 one of the first 1990s built :cheers:
I also have the last one sold to public (#3032) and it has no windshield issues.

This will be BEFORE and AFTER photos Monday :D

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...0138857c47.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...01f6c860bd.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...84548db2e3.jpg

Re: Windshield
 

i just had my windshield replaced due to a crack developed under someones care and I must say it is much easier to see out of it. I had a very good original windshield but the little nicks over time accumulate and make a difference. there are two companies that de practically all the glass work down south, one is safelite and the other one is charlies auto glass. the key is the technician and his experience doing many cars especially c4 corvettes. my tech was a pro and i cant even tell the windshield area was apart. the new windshield has a nice shaded tint and is crystal clear. I am sad to lose my original windshield through no fault of mine but I am happy at the cleaner look of my car.

ed ramos #3028

Re: Windshield
 

Have to replace windshield and was going with Safelite. They just called me and said they have to replace the rubber or molding. I guess they get it from GM or dealer. Do you guys provide your own molding or rubber? Where do you get it?
Which is it exactly that has to be replaced?

I just sent an e-mail to Marc to see how he does it as he has experience with Safelite. The Safelite local guy seemed to know what he is talking about and has replaced windshields on corvettes before.

Re: Windshield
 

Cliff,

Weatherstrip has to be removed first. 90% chance the weatherstrip will break apart as you are removing. Although there may be good quality aftermarket weatherstrip, I have not yet seen one - stay with OEM. Call Chevrolet dealer. You might still get lucky.

Once weatherstrip has been removed, driver side and passenger side powder coated aluminum mouldings have to be removed. These are two pieces (each side) sheet metal screwed with double sided tape in between. I don't trust anyone to remove these pieces without destroying them. I use a long retractable razor (box cutter) to separate top moulding ("L" section visiable from the outside ) from the bottom piece. Once removed, another set of screws attaching the inner piece to the "A" pillar is exposed. Removal of these screws allows removal of the inner piece. Once side mouldings are removed, you can un-screw and remove the top piece.
These are delicate procedure and recommend that you take your time and remove unless the window installer has experience working on C4 window.
These aluminum trim/mouldings were very expensive even when C4 Corvettes were in production. I am not sure if they are still available.

Re: Windshield
 

Thank you for the information :handshak:

Re: Windshield
 

Agreed! Great stuff.

Re: Windshield
 

Hey Cliff,

That one does look pretty bad or it might just be the angle. Did you find a good replacement?

Did you see this: http://www.zr1windshield.com/

I convinced my insurance that it was a safety hazard and they are covering the replacement. I got really lucky.

Re: Windshield
 

Yun,

Thanks for the details. I'm printing this info and taking it to the installer that I'm using. Better if they know up front and I'll be there to ensure. Yeah, the original, good OEM weatherstrip is like finding a Unicorn. I paid through my nose, but lucked out with some help to find one. :cheers:

Re: Windshield
 

My windshield is really that bad. Did you find an original windshield or a standard C4 replacement like they install at Safelite?
I am assuming the Safelite standard windshield is tinted but without the radar box opening.

The guys at Safelite here say they will not warranty if I provide the weatherstrip so I am waiting on an estimate for the rubber they are trying to get from a dealer.

Yep...I copied the details provided by secondchance onto my IPhone for the installer to see before he does the job. If the installer is familiar with that information I will go for it. That is great information and linked that post in -Solutions- (7th post under EXTERIOR).
Windshield Removal TIPS

Re: Windshield
 

Cliff,
I'm trying for an original reproduction (not LOF); if not, I will end up with the standard C4 windshield for $212. The guy I am dealing with is very knowledgeable and was sharing the difference with all the windshield brands out there. Most are from China, but a few are not and better quality. Not sure what Safelite and they would not say the brand; staying away from them (the ones over here anyway). I had all the info written down and called or went to so many shops until I got dizzy. Best wishes.

Re: Windshield
 

Marc says the weather strip that goes from the top of the door to the other side top of the door is needed. Safelite in most areas uses a Chinese weatherstrip which is grey, rather than black in color. I might try Corvette Rubber or one other purty good source that has black rubber ready to ship.

Safelite is a bit tricky to deal with as they insist that they use the rubber they find from a dealer (something about warranty) which they should have known there is no such rubber from GM any more. I have not heard back from Safelite so I am sure they are finding that out. I do not want some grey rubber from China. I am going with a guy I have been dealing with (not LOF). This Safelite guy and the warranty stuff makes me dizzy ;)

Happy New Year Craig and everyone looking at this thread :cheers:

Re: Windshield
 

I remembered I had stashed a set of windshield moulding just in case. So, I dug up my stash and wanted to clear up removal/install procedure since I remembered what I wrote earlier may be wrong:

http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...swjgmmeqe.jpeg
Above is the driver side side mouldings. Piece on the left (sorry the image is upside down...) is the first piece you will be removal after the weatherstrip is removed (we'll call it channel strip since this piece is shaped as channel to receive weather strip). Piece on the right is the trim piece.

http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...svjd8zqqc.jpeg
Above is the back side of the trim piece. Notice vinyl strip? I call his flashing since this flexiable vinyl strip is what keeps the water out.

Separation of channel strip from trim piece is difficult because factory used double sided tape to hold the two before screwing. Also, if you want to truly maintain OEM look, careful removal of the trim piece is necessary not to destroy vinyl flashing.

http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...s9dnxlgtq.jpeg
Above is the top piece (two pieces of powder coated aluminum rivetted together) with vinyl strip to keep the water out. I believe this piece is under the side trim piece but I may be wrong. I will edit after I take a look at my car later. Once again, careful removal is necessary to avoid any damage to the vinyl strip (flashing).

When reassembling, if NCRS level reinstall is desired, use of double stick 3M tape is the only way to achieve correct look.
I use double stick tape to attach vinyl pieces on the edge of the windshield and "A" pillar and roof structure first followed by side trim mouldings. Another layer of double stick tape is applied to the side trim mouldings followed by side channel pieces. I believe top trim/channel piece goes on top.
Problem of achieving OEM look is water infiltration may be an issue due to reusing aged vinyl trim and make shift use of double stick tape.

If this install is for the daily driver, I would not use vinyl trim and after the mouldings are installed, use masking take along the edge of trim moulding and windshield and fill the gap with silicone or black urethane caulking.

Lastly, I recommend not to glue the new weather strip to the channel moulding. Weatherstrip holds fine without glue and compression from the top keeps water from entering. Only place to worry over water coming in is at two top corners between the weatherstrip and the trim moulding. I use masking tape to control the edge of silicone caulking and fill the gap after installing the top.

I will add photo later.

Re: Windshield
 

Exactly the instructions I was looking for :handshak:

I assume you remove the windshield after all the moldings are removed? Is it stuck so you push the windshield out from inside?

Oh......How did you come by the extra moldings?

I have a set of standard 1990 (L98) front window moldings and assume those moldings are installed the same and are the same as window moldings on a ZR-1? I see exactly what you are saying about the double back tape keeping the two side pieces together and hiding three screws under the double back tape. The top molding appears to not have the hidden screws.

On the side moldings there are 4 screws for the top powder coated molding not necessarily the same location on each molding. The inner piece (after cutting the double back tape) has 3 screws not necessarily the same location on each molding from car to car. The Top piece has one set of screws and they are located the same on each top piece from car to car?

Happy New Year Yun and everyone looking at this thread :cheers:

Re: Windshield
 

Cliff,
The guy that I am using used to work for Safelite and now has his own business. He said that if I don't decide to use him, there is a guy from Safelite that he would recommend that is just as good as him and been in the business for over 20 years and did a bunch of C4 windshields. I'm sticking with this guy after visiting him several times and seeing how meticulous he works, and how clean his shop is. I don't want the mobile job at work site or in my garage.

To answer your question before edit, I tried to have this guy sell to other members that I knew were looking for the GM NOS stuff. This shop had a bunch he bought from GM years ago (around 60 sets), but has only a few left. Sorry, he would not let me refer him and said he has to keep the remaining few for his actual customers. I had to respect that and he would not sell more than one knowing more valuable than gold (very expensive if you find it). I hope you find an NOS one, but even new and sealed there might be cracks and wrinkles I am told. My guy said don't open as my original is very nice and he thinks he can save it; I am told he will not be able to no matter how good he is or takes his time.

Happy New Year and best wishes!:handshak:

By the way, I might have some good news about your code tool and late model adapter. I have to confirm first.

Re: Windshield
 

Yun,
As always, thanks for sharing so much detail of your experience with this issue. Every little bit of information helps.

Re: Windshield
 

Ha, ha... Normally I remove the weatherstrip and mouldings, take the car to the auto glass shop, have them remove and replace the windshield.

I came by a regular 86 Corvette that got bar-b-q'd. Went to his house and removed all the mouldings.

All C4 windshield mouldings, I believe, are the same. However, factory assembly sequence seemed to have been glue trim moulding to the A pillars (and header), take a drill and drill thru the trim mouldings, followed by screw. Due to this sequence, screw holes typically don't match from car to another car. Another good reason to be extra patient and save the original mouldings.

As for the top piece, whether it can be transferred from another car without re-drilling screw holes, I am not sure. You are correct, there are no hidden screws.

Over the years (93, 2012, 2014 and 2015) I messed with 4 ZR-1 (91, 94, 90 and finally a 95) window mouldings. Seems to be getting better at it...

When I am over this rush at work, I will take time and, perhaps, start a new post with pics and more detailed information.

Happy new Year to you all also!:cheers:

Re: Windshield
 

I just used the ALDL Code Reader on my 1990 (L98). Works perfectly.
That tool is soooooo handy. Now to find a couple of those plastic covers for the ALDL Connector under the Drivers side panel :cheers:

Back to Windshields.....I got something going on and will post later if it works out :p

Re: Windshield
 

I should have time this weekend to play with it on the 95. I was busy cleaning the 95 MY lumbar pump motor and it works like a champ now; but I still want to become one with the car in a Corbeau A4 after sitting in one yesterday.

Can't want to hear your secrets.....:censored:

Re: Windshield
 

I was soooo close to making an offer on the Red 95 and am still thinking if it is not sold. It would be fun to do some modifications on a 95.
So....how do you like the 95 compared to a 91 or a 90?

I do know it is a lot of fun keeping the LT5 stock after a Plenum Removal to clean up Injectors, Starter, Vacuum System. The LT5s are soooooo reliable after fixing a few minor issues. One thing I do is thread and screw in an Allen Head Aluminum Plug in the Injector Housing TB Coolant path leaving the outside appear stock WITHOUT Hose Clamps on those TB Coolant hoses. And I add one HIDDEN Plug in the return of that TB Coolant to the coolant reservoir. And Carter Bling...........And Differential Drain Plug Installation.....And....Darn....here we go again but I still call them stock :sign10:

Re: Windshield
 

Cliff,
You put me on the spot, but I'll bite. You know I tell it like it is and rarely care about being politically correct. Here is my experience having only owned a 90 and a 91. I LOVE the (or this) 95 and all the improvements made over the years. This car is a totally different car by ride and feel. Different strokes for different folks, but there is no way I'm going back to the early years. If I bought another, it would definitely be late model. Difficult to explain, but drive the 95 (a good one; not a thrashed one) and see if you feel the same. But it goes a little beyond as I was inspecting the various improvements over the years while tinkering, and I like the last year a LOT. :dancing

I meant your secrets about your windshield, but cool thoughts to consider....

:cheers:

Re: Windshield
 

I know your were talking windshield......and I definitely will try a windshield install myself. Am not positive about popping the old windshield out after all the molding is removed just yet. I do not want glass all over the inside :)

Thanks for the information on the 95 as I have not a clue never looked at one and never driven one. I do have a very nice 95 crate engine :cheers:

Re: Windshield
 

I hear you on that about the windshield. I'm going to leave mine to a pro. Best wishes on that 95. I wish I could have a crate motor, but no room and to too much moving around the world yet. :cheers:

Safelite Windshield Installation
 

Safelite Just installed a Windshield and Weather stripping in a 1990 ZR-1 for $150. I furnished the Windshield and Weather Stripping :)

This is number 72 one of the first 1990s built.
I also have the last 1990 ZR-1 sold to public (#3032) and it has no windshield issues.

This is BEFORE and AFTER photos :D

Safelite did a Perfect Job :thumbsup:

I got the Windshield and Weather Stripping from ZZZZZR1 (Dave) and have to say the Windshield is perfect in every way as is the Weather Stripping. Safelite was pleasantly surprised how good this Windshield Installation ended ....and they have done other Windshield Installations on Corvettes with Windshields and Weather Stripping they have provided themselves (This was the best they had seen).

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...0138857c47.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...01f6c860bd.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...3111587e02.jpg

Replacing the Windshield and Wiper Motor

Re: Windshield
 

Just for future reference - what is the difference between the Safelite weatherstripping and what you bought? (other then you bought oem or similar)
Just curious if you HAVE to buy correct ZR-1 weatherstrip or if Safelite's will work without issues?

Re: Windshield
 

fyi... I had my windshield replaced after the car suffered an unfortunate accident at the repair shop it was at. I chose not to go with a expensive original glass so I went with a regular c4 windshield. The guy that installed it had worked for Charlie's auto glass here in South Florida, who is very well known down here, and he had done many c4 installations.

He brought his own weatherstripping and installed it flawlessly. My windshield has never looked better. I had no delamination on my original glass but it had 25 years of wear a a few tiny chips etc.. I was crushed at first but now I am delighted with the results. My windshield pieces came off the car looking excellent. For some reason there was discoloring or rust of any kind on any of the take off parts. I can see again like never before in this car. I am going to put clear uv tint on all windows to keep the car cool inside in the hot florida weather. This was all covered by my insurance company since it is a law here in Florida that they cover all windshield damages free of charge.

ed ramos #3028

Re: Windshield
 

Marc says the weather strip that goes from the top of the door to the other side top of the door is needed (I think Marc was talking about weather strip from the bottom of the windshield on each side up each side and across the top of the windshield being one piece). Safelite in most areas uses a Chinese weatherstrip which is grey, rather than black in color. The Weather Strip I furnished was perfect although it was a bit grey in color...that is all I know for sure :p

Re: Windshield
 

Poor prep? I've got finger prints in the lamination sheets.

Re: Windshield
 

So, here's my windshield story as of today. I have the glass and the WS (same source as Cliff). Safelite refuses to work on the car if it's pre '97. I think it's because they know the moldings are unavailable and don't want the liability of ruining mine. Either way, if they don't want to work on it then I don't want them working on it. So, I called Extreme Auto Glass Pros here in Dallas. Apparently, they do a lot of work for Richard Rawlings and Gas Monkey Garage so at least they're use to working on custom cars and builds. The best part is the installer actually owns a '90 ZR-1 and is well aware of the challenges of replacing the windshield. His words were, "They are not fun to do but I know how to do them." Because of the extra time involved they are going to charge me a little over $400. That's a lot of money considering I'm supplying all the parts. But, I was running out of options (Binswanger Glass also refused to work on the car. And they do a lot of classic cars) and if he truly knows what he's doing it's money well spent. He will be here tomorrow morning and has blocked off the entire morning for this install.

I'll update after the work is complete. Cross your fingers, say a prayer....do whatever you do. I need this to work.

Re: Windshield
 

Yup. I agree, you don't want safelite working on it if they don't want to. I had them replace my windshield and the owner did the install since he was the expert. He warned me that if they messed up the molding, it couldn't be replaced. He did do a good job though and I'm happy with the new glass.

Good luck