Second time for Secondchance
 

Most of you may remember that I had a head gasket failure in April 2013 resulting in 380 mini-stroker build which was completed in June 2014.
Since March 2015 I have been losing coolant again despite multiple attempts at isolating the problem and attempted fixes problem progressively got worse. My drive up to Carlisle resulted in having to have the car trailered back to VA - Thanks, Mark and Dennis!!!

Last Saturday I had my car towed to Dempsey's in Clinton, MD. and pulled the motor with Dempsey, Rich and Charlie.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...psrmq5ccuh.jpg
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...psuffyijen.jpg

Started around 9 am and we had the motor out by 3:28. That is with a sit-down lunch of barbequed ribs and chicken and joy rides for Brett - We are getting scary good at this!
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...psmh372ntn.jpg

We had a special guest, Brett. To make the long story short, Dempsey found out about Brett, an autistic teenager who loves Corvettes, and invited Brett and his parents over to watch what we were doing and joy rides of Brett's choice. I must say, this must have been a very special day for Brett - Dempsey, thanks for having had an opportunity to be a part of Brett's special day!
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...psnwiozt6x.jpg

Private Corvette show for Brett!
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...psfj2gx2el.jpg

Yesterday, Dempsey disassembled the top end. It seems inboard head bolts may have been under torqued resulting in head gasket around #5 cylinder breaking up. I will be taking the heads with gaskets attached to the machine shop that had assembled the short block, discuss what we see and hopefully figure out exactly how and why it had failed.

Once I have both heads shaved we will be re-assembling the motor and drop in the car. I will certainly keep you all posted.

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

May I suggest using the Cometic MLS head headgasket upgrade that Marc Haibeck sells? This is basically LS-1 Technology using an all steel "Reuseable gasket"

Ive been running mine in my 380 for years now with Zero issues. Since your there I strongly suggest and I highly recommend it. GC


http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20W...d%20gasket.htm

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

For sure! I talked to Marc during the Carlisle event. I will be getting a set very soon.

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Phil (PhllipsLT5) is also using these gaskets after he lost his head gaskets years ago after Marc did a lot of work on the car.

These days its the best way forward. GC

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

I was a test mule for Marc and years later in HOT AZ, lots of 1/4, 1/2, 1 & 1.5 mile runs, no leaks, only way to go

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

good luck! sounds like you found the root cause and are well on the way to the fix.

I admire the determination and for sure the wazoo guys are unique in their talents.

we are pretty lucky to have this segment of the brotherhood.

as I look at the LS guys the LS9 hg is getting slung on anything regardless of bore (sheesh)

my next build I'd love to try the AES liners, maybe we can talk Phil into it, he seems to want more for that big stroker before he even gets the rings seated :confused:

the LT5 stroker is just way too much fun.

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Absolutely Ron. We have some of the best talents locally. Also, WAZOO gang are always so helpful and happy to pitch in. Had it not been for the WAZOO gang, I would have given up my Z a long time ago. Just wouldn't have been able to afford necessary refurbishing let alone all mods.:cheers:

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

That my man is the TRUTH! Cannot imagine having to take the Z to the local GM dealer..................

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

"We had a special guest, Brett. To make the long story short, Dempsey found out about Brett, an autistic teenager who loves Corvettes, and invited Brett and his parents over to watch what we were doing and joy rides of Brett's choice. I must say, this must have been a very special day for Brett - Dempsey, thanks for having had an opportunity to be a part of Brett's special day!"

This is pretty cool, my daughter has autism, and something like this means alot....very nice of you guys to do this!

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Charlie,
What are those blue things on your hands?
Nelson

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

The new fashion imported from Cairo....

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Charlie's moonlighting as a proctologist :wink:

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Line up boys, volume discounts available. Small hands and fingers are a bonus:-D

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

All credit goes to Dempsey. I thought it was very thoughtful of him to invite Brett.

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Upon head removal, head gasket failure was confirmed. I couldn't make Sunday but according to Dempsey inboard head bolts didn't take much force to unbolt. So, it seems quite feasible that failure may have been due to improper torque when the short block was assembled at the machine shop. Another possibility raised was detonation in #5 and #2 cylinder.
Heads are being shaved and cleaned and we will be making sure that all liners are level and have correct projection above the deck.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...psvtg8k2ax.jpg

Another concern I had was very low oil pressure after the rebuild/install last year. I had about 10 psi at idle when the coolant reached 200 degrees. Well, guess what showed up in the oil pan?! - crankshaft oil plug!
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...smifsa4pv.jpeg

In a way, head gasket failure was a blessing in disguise - forced me to pull the motor and resolve not only blown head gasket but also low oil pressure concern.

For those planning on off-set grind mini stroker crankshaft, make sure to instruct the machine shop to install plugs after the heat treatment. Rich (Scrrem) had the same issue.

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Actually this is the Third time this happened. My 380 was the first 380 install and the first to crap the crank plug in 2012. I highly suggest welding the expansion style crank plugs in. Thats the only way I would recommend to move forward. My tale of woe is below. Now that the pan is removed make sure the bottom side of the pistons are not damaged as well from the plug beating around in there. GC


http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread....ght=crank+plug

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Can we get a ZR-1 Registry tshirt for Bill?

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

That's a great idea. I'll go half with you.
I'll talk to Mark H. and work it out.

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Brett and his Mom came to our local cars and coffee last Sunday and they enjoyed seeing all the cars including Matt's and my Z. Think we have a fan for life:-D

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

An honorary WAZOO member!

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Hey Guys! Nice of you to include Brett in all the happenings. Let me know what size he is and I will order him a t-shirt since he is now an honorary member.

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

9/26/2015 update:

All pistons were removed followed by separation of upper and lower block to examine main bearings since I put on about 10,000 miles with relatively low oil pressure resulting from one of the crankshaft plug being popped out.

http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...psrudnzfbx.jpg

We couldn't remove the oil pump due to lack of proper tool to remove the sprocket off the crankshaft. This will be done later this week with a tool on loan from Phil.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps12ywguyh.jpg

All rod bearings and upper mains looked good pending Phil's inspection. I have a set of brand new ones on stand-by just in case.

Since the engine bay was empty with all nooks and cranny readily accessible, I could not resist some cleaning and touch up with a rattle can.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...psbto7pair.jpg

To be continued...

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

class act all of them!!! Good Luck and great job WAZOO :proud:

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Like you I always look for other opportunities to do other things while you are there. Taking care of the engine bay is just plain smart. I also recommend you weld in those plugs vs. using the factory expansion seal method only. With the offset method on the crank to build a mini stroker it puts more stress on the motor beyond what GM intended. This is also the reason I had to increase cooling and braking. bigger HP has bigger challenges. I too was so frustrated when I lost my crank plug. All I can tell you is thanks for documenting and sharing and that the light is at the end of the tunnel. GC

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

This is such a fanatical and enthusiastic group I had to share all my trials and tribulations.

I will be sure to address the crank plug issue with Phil and Dempsey. We are meeting at Dempsey's house where my car and motor is at this afternoon to check liner heights, remove the sprocket from the crankshaft, etc... Amount of time and energy made available by the WAZOO guys for the first and the second build has been incredible.

As for ancillary upgrades;

Cooling system.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...pscygustdc.jpg
Check!

Brakes.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps5f5e9c16.jpg
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...psa228826c.jpg
Check!

Once the LT5 roars back to life, I should be good to go!

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

9/30/2015 update:

Got together with Phil at Dempsey's. Removed sprocket and oil pump, removed all plugs from the crankshaft. Once plugs were removed ran telescoping magnet through the oil galley and surprised to find steel shavings coming out attached to the magnet. Judging by the shape these finger nail clipping sized pieces looked to be remnants from oil galley drilling and thread tapping operation during the manufacturing of the crankshaft.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...psuxdunmpe.jpg

Also, Phil showed us how to check the top of the deck to liner dimension with his home made gauge.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...psejwb0s2q.jpg

I tried to take a short cut and Phil would not have any of that. So, per Phil and Dempsey's urging, the block and the crankshaft is in my BMW trunk to be dropped off at Springfield Custom Machine for a hot bath and #5 liner to be touched up with "digleberry honing".

Once cleaned, we will be installing all new bearings.

This is turning out to be a total rebuild...

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Stay the course and get it done right. Mine was full of shavings as well in the crank as were the cams..... I guess it was figured while they were plugged what was the harm. Now like a mother hen clucking get those darn expansion style crank plugs welded. If not for piece of mind. Don't trust the expansion method only

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

I have the same front setup. Can you provide me details on the back set up ?

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Daryl,

Rear set up is from Revolution Brake LLC.
http://store.revolutionbrake.com/14-0106.html

It required some massaging to make it work including parking brake cable bracket under the car being cut/welded by 3/4" and having to shave outboard brake pad by 3/16" and adding 3/16" thick aluminum piece to shim inboard pad. Otherwise, this was the simplest parking brake solution I found and it works!

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Daryl,

I looked at that setup too..

YUN,

for the price I would not have expected to mod parts like you did.. the Street Shop drum hubs Dominic bought also need to be modded (but not nearly as much)

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Oh, a little bit of yungineering is always fun...

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Y'all would cost me a fortune if I lived there.

Nice work fellas. Yun, sorry for the troubles but looks like a good thing is coming together.

Ted

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Coming from a guy with... How many was it? 5? 6 ZR-1s?:mrgreen:

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

:-D good point ;)

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Oh I am all for the engineering of it, but when laying out that kind of money for a kit made for our cars, I would expect it to work, not need mods to to make it work.

That said I understand you may need to change/mod the car for the parts, but not mod the kit.

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

In the absence of perfectly engineered kit, best I could do was to find a kit that can be made to work. I thought about putting a kit together based on what I had to figure out but I concluded not too many would be interested. Insufficient number of people interested in high performance brakes (as opposed to going faster) is what makes kits such as this one expensive and not even totally sorted out.
All said and done, this was cheaper and less of a headache compared to fabricating one from the scratch.

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

10/3/2015 update:

Another rainy day but perfect for short block assembly. Ran over to Dempsey's and started with crankshaft plug installation.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...pshtdyuvko.jpg
Lower thrust bearing had chipped so replaced all main bearings with a new set from Jerry's Gasket.

Crankshaft in the upper block ready to receive the lower block.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps9xfsy7vl.jpg

Dempsey bolting on main bearing cap bolts. Despite hot tanking exhaust leak stain still needs to be cleaned.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxfskzgua.jpg

Number 1 & 2 pistons installed - 6 more to go.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps4tsm6zmx.jpg

To be continued...

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Hey Yun,
Sorry to hear about the engine woes, but glad to hear it is getting sorted out. You guys have the best thing going with all those WAZOO guys. I can't even get to meet other Z members here in NorCal, let alone try to do any mods with anyone. I might have to pick your brain about brakes as that is on the list. I found out how much these cars are lacking in that area while at Laguna SECA; you're right...why try to go faster if you can't stop.

Take care and Aloha,
Craig

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

Hey, Craig,

Totally agree. Mutual support here is phenomenal. Although it was disappointing to find out that I had second head gasket failure, being able to do this the second time is allowing me to incorporate what I have learned hopefully leading to a better result.
Call me or email me with any question regarding the brake upgrade.

Re: Second time for Secondchance
 

I can't think of a more appropriate handle than Secondchance. Always the bright side with learning involved with it. Great crew you folks have there and I'm so jealous. I definitely want to find some brakes that fit the factory A molds for sure, but I know it limits me. I'm thinking of selling or trading my Dymag Gen IIs, but I think the clearance is about the same as the A molds and have to measure to confirm. Thanks for the offer and take care. :cheers: