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Assistance would be appreciated...
Members,
I hope this is the correct forum for this, please accept my apologies and kindly redirect me to the appropriate place if not. As some of you may be aware, there is currently a documentary in pre-production that primarily focuses on the men and women that passionately thrive to keep the ZR1 legend alive. More specifically the models starting with the C4 and LT5 engine. What that means is that this documentary is about you, its designers, drivers, and mechanics that have given this "unicorn of supercars" the place in sportscar history that it maintains today and have created an entire community of people helping people around it. Finding the specs on every version since 1988 is pretty simple given our technology, however, what is not simple is knowing what that spark is. That spark that puts this machine in a very special place in your hearts. What makes this car and all of its components something more that brings you all together? So my request is this, for everyone that cares to, may I get you to put it into brief words for me in this thread? Just enough to get your point across. For again, this film is about the people and the passion that has kept this car alive. I thank you in advance, Stan Miles Producer Dravin Wolf Productions |
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It's not necessarily the car, it's the people. The car is the central force that we gather around but this isn't your typical small block chevy. These cars are unique and it takes a village to keep these running. When you drive this car you realize this isn't your normal vette, you're just coming into the power band where you'd be shifting on any other c4. There's a sound, a feel, a soul that base vettes just don't have. You drive the car and you love it, then you find the other owners here or on the list serve and you get a taste of the comradeary that these cars inspire. Then you meet other owners at an even and you finally understand it all.
It's a bit like rock n roll, if we have to explain it, you won't get it. |
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Kevin,
I appreciate your response. I have driven it and I certainly know where you are coming from. Great start! |
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Agree with everything Kevin said.
Plus, For me, I was one of the lucky ones to taste this difference (at the time I had a 84 Corvette Z51) and purchase a brand new ZR-1 in October of 1991. I enjoyed this car so much So that I put on 98,000 miles in a little less than 4 years. Being young and stupid (I was 35 when I bought it) had three wrecks and the third accident was a total loss - truly lucky to have walked away... I drove a BMW 850ci for the next 4 years but missed my ZR-1 so much so that I bought a 94 ZR-1, sight unseen, with 25,000 miles on it in the summer of 2000. By 2009 the car had racked up roughly 100,000 miles and was looking and getting tired. Lucky me! I ran into Wazoo guys and with camaraderie, shared knowledge and a lot of help, brought her back mechanically and topped it off with cosmetic restoration. At this point, instead of simply maintaining, got ambitious and again with a lot of help and support of Wazoo gang, started upgrading and modifications to make a great car even better incorporating now available technologies, electronics and modifications pioneered by other ZR oners. This, I realize now, is a never ending process. There are a lot of very special, ultra fast and user friendly cars these days. However, for me, this connection to my youth is simply priceless. Now you know why I am the "secondchance". Forever 35!!!:cheers: |
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I've owned "Girlfriend" ('90 ZR1 #792) for 12 years.
In those 12 years I've only put about 4000 miles on her in that time, she's got 13,800 miles on her now. I may not drive her much, but I love every second that I do. I was raised in a car lot during the 70's, I've had the honor and pleasure of owning many different muscle cars of that era. Camaros, Mustangs, Chargers, Barracudas, you name it, I probably had one or three and sold it when I tired of it. (wish I had kept a few of the more rare ones.....sigh). They all had their good and bad, but at the end of the day I had no trouble selling each and every one of them. I would tire of some of them in just few weeks, some lasted a few months, but not a single one until Girlfriend would last the test of time. When I bought Girlfriend, she needed a little mechanical attention from having set in a warehouse, rarely being driven. She needed new fuel injectors and there was a problem with the 2nd and 3rd gear synchros in the transmission caused by too many clumsy attempts at speed shifting. I went hunting for ideas and parts and found the ZR1 Registry and all the wonderful people here who flat out LOVE their ZR1s. Over the last 12 years the Registry has been valuable source of information and contacts which have made owning a low production number supercar not quite as big a challenge as it otherwise would be. There some GREAT people here. Really knowledgeable and sharing people. If you seek, someone will share. At the end of the day, it's really the people that make the ZR1 what it is, and not just the car itself. There are plenty of other cars out there that are faster, quicker, sleeker, sexier, and more expensive. But they are not ZR1's. Both of my sons have asked who would get "Girlfriend" when I have passed on. I told them that they'd have to pry my cold stiff fingers off of her steering wheel. |
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Dravin,
I would certainly be interested in further background on your project. What was the Genesis for this, how are u connected to the ZR-1 and this community or who directed you to us? What's the scope of your project? What part is our community playing in your project? Thx, Dominic |
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Stan,
My first ZR-1 was a daily driver. The car was simply amazing. It was clear immediately that the car was very special. I have owned my second and current ZR-1 for 20 years. It will never be sold. It is a piece of Corvette History that just happened to occur at a time when I could make it part of my history. Some are older. Some are now faster. No matter. None are more special to me. The "King of the Hill" will always have it's place in the front row. I have spent 20 years sharing the car and it's story with hundreds upon hundreds of people who continue to admire it at shows and events. Most all leave with a smile almost as big as mine. It is simply what the car itself conveys to those who see it. They don't need me to tell them how special it is, they reach that conclusion all on their own. My first tag said it all. 1FUNZR1 True 20 years ago. Still true today! Best wishes with your project! :cheers: Marty |
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Dravin,
Purchased my 94 ZR-1 in April of '14, and have to say it is a dream come true. Having owned previous and other current Corvettes now, this ranks in the #1 slot of favorite Vettes. I still believe that the C4 ZR-1 & the C5 Z06 are the performance buys of the decade. To me, ownership of the ZR-1 is not only the opportunity to own a piece of automotive history, but also to be part of a fantastic group of people on this forum. From the wealth of knowledge here, meeting members at different events, being part of the WAZOO group, allows you to enjoy Corvette ZR-1 ownership to the fullest. Driving the ZR-1 is very rewarding, it really extends the true meaning of the "Corvette Mystique". |
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For me the car was simply magic. I say was,I've had mine for 10 years and now it's just my car,it's my ZR-1. Back in mid to the late 80s I was on my second Corvette and read anything with a Corvette on the cover so I started hearing about the car the earliest that the public was hearing it. This car was huge,all the car magazines were printing anything they could get one it. THE CORVETTE FROM HELL-KING OF THE HILL-KING KONG,it was everywhere. It was a good 3 years after all the teasing before the car finally hit the streets. I went to a Corvette show and DAMN,there it was,my first sighting. On the very rare occasions you would actually see one on the street it could have been the most bitchin Ferrari,didn't matter,I got the same goofy feeling,and that unexplainable grin-it's a ZR-1 thing-. Fast forward to 2007 and I was in a position to buy my dream car so I looked at all the things that did it for me and the choice always came back to a ZR-1. And it's the members here that really helped out with the car I have today. From the very day the ZR-1 was produced I've always known there will be a time that this car will be compared to greatness. Even though prices are in the dirt,peope would rather have a GS,never once has anything EVER changed the way I feel about it. Our day will come,I got time😁. I want to thank you for stopping by to have a conversation with us about this craziness we,the diehards are a part of. My most memorable ZR-1 moment wasn't the first time I saw one or the time I reached out and touch the EDS 24 hour car and one of the Corvette shows. The one for me was I was at a local car get together a few years ago and I'm standing with h some friends about 20 from my my car and I see this kid,maybe 12 checkin out the car. He would walk around it then look around like he was looking for somebody then he disappeared. Well about 15 minutes later he's back doing the same thing and I finally realized he was looking for me,the owner. So I walk start talking to the kid. Blew me away. This 12 year old kid knew exactly what the car was,how it came to be,who designed the motor the whole deal. I stood there and talk to that kid for mayb 15 minutes. I think that kid will remember that car for years.
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I was an SCCA Club Racer in the northeast and knew Kim Baker, who had a close working relationship with Chevrolet, and had begun racing (and developing) the early C4 Corvettes. I was one of his crew members in the Playboy and Escort Endurance Series. Kim's reputation for meticulous preparation got him involved in the early development of the ZR-1, so I was fortunate to be exposed to some of the fascinating elements of the car before it was offered for sale. Its extra wide body and and incredible engine were very special. I can still remember walking around a ZR-1 in his shop for the first time and hearing about all the things that made it so unique (and twice the car of the next best Corvette). Then I saw Bill Cooper and others race these special ZR-1 Corvettes. It was a great and impressionable time for me.
I still find it hard to believe I was able to find and own one of my own. I never thought I'd be in position to own a true supercar. |
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I had never even dreamed of owning a Corvette at all - until someone wanted my street/strip 71 Nova enough to trade me my Z for it. Before the trade I used this forum to research whether or not it was a good deal - and found that it was so I pulled the trigger. I am SO happy I did it!
This ZR-1 community is one that I have experienced mostly through the online world, mainly due to my crazy life which leaves me little time to actually DRIVE the Z - but a couple experiences are worth mentioning. I posted here about wanting to find a later year resonator to buy to upgrade my exhaust. Within hours I had multiple offers from Z owners willing to GIVE me one for shipping cost. Then I got an offer for an ENTIRE performance exhaust system for FREE as long as I would pay shipping. It was 5 hours away so I just drove there in my DD and picked it up. We could have talked for days even though we just met. All he asked was that if I ever wanted to get rid of it, that I pass it on to another member as he had to me. That is an example of "community" if I ever saw it. I have had my car worked on by one of the premier Z mechanics, he was gracious enough to let me in his shop while the work was performed, so that I could learn some tricks on how to work on these myself. My pilot bushing was making noise - posted up on here and within hours I had answers as to what I needed to do to fix it - and as I ran into little "hiccups" along the project all I had to do was post on here or make a phone call to get the info I needed. I was able to pull transmission, clutch, and bushing out of a ZR-1 Corvette (which while having mechanical knowledge I had never done this on a Vette before), and get it all back together better then it was before due to the members of the ZR-1 community. While I live in a "no Z zone" of the country I can have answers within hours. Hopefully in the next few years my time constraints and finances will improve to where I can meet more of these great guys in person. It is the people that make the community what it is....:salute: |
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I was in high school when the rumors of a high performance King of the Hill Corvette started. I followed everything I could about the car including all the press on the Geneva press introduction. I had no way to own one at the time, but my dad bought a 91 (he still has it). I remember going with him to pick it up on a cold February night. He won dozens of autocrosses with the SCCA and NCCC, including many as the Fast Time of Day regardless of class from 1991 to 1999 (when it was retired from competition). So it was always the King of the HIll as far as performance cars of that era for me.
I somehow talked him into letting me take it to my senior prom, but the deal was to take it without the "valet key" (meaning low horsepower). I had other plans though and made my own copy of the "valet key." I chose a restaurant 60 miles away to go to before the event and them made a 40 mile extra detour on the way to the actual prom, in order to do some cruising down the main drag in a bigger town. I was not going to waste my opportunity! We ended up getting to prom about 10 minutes before it was over, which did not make my date happy, but I had a great time! I didn't do anything too stupid with the car, but did get into in a few times... and from then I was hooked. I waited about 10 years to tell him about my key. I drove my dads car occasionally (read "whenever possible") over the years, including autocrossing it a couple times, but it took 25 years before I could afford one of my own. It is exactly the same color combination as the one I had a poster of in my room in high school. It puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. I have owned a few cars that are faster, but the sound and high revving power of the LT5 make it special. It represents a true American supercar of it's era and the story of it's development adds to the mystique. |
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You should come to the Gathering in May and ask us all in person.
http://www.corvettemuseum.org/event/...nstance_id=587 There's not a gathering for any other generation of car, and plus there's probably a lot of great footage opportunities there that you won't get anywhere else. (Not to mention you can see all the people who love these cars and ask them in person) |
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I have and have had and driven a lot of different cars. I like the engine. That's what it's about. The sound. The feel. The looks. And do appreciate the durability. The car is connected to the road and the driver without putting too much electronics in the way. Easy to control or let loose. Driver is in control, not some computer. New vettes are faster, but are they more fun?
Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry |
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Are you working closely with the ZR-1 base to clarify the info? Not to criticize but Lotus didn't build the motors. Please,before this goes to a final whatever the term is please make sure your info to 100% dead on accurate. If you have any questions you can feel free to ask one of us.
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Dominic,
I can certainly appreciate your inquiry. My interest in the ZR1 community began while I was filming an event called 'Dyno Days' at Dempsey Anderson's shop, Evolution Motorsport Engineering. Part of my skillset as a film producer is to be extremely observative of the interactions of people and the comradery that I observed actually gave me pause. I didn't grow up in nor have I lived in wealthy environments in my life so being around cars or trucks for anything other than necessity has always been very foreign to me. As a matter of fact, the only man I ever knew to own a Corvette was the preacher of our church in a small town called Colonial Beach, Va. (Go figure, ha ha) Of course, I have heard of car and truck clubs and the fun, competitive nature between the members but I never got a taste for the community, until that day. Up until these last few months, I didn't know an LT5 from a speedboat motor but what I do know is people. And what I've seen between that event, this registry, and speaking with Jim Voter (Director of the Net Registry if my memory serves) I honestly believe that the world needs to see more of this. The harsh fact is that we live in an age where this type of comradery is far and few between and I believe that the community that was built around the ZR-1 (a certainly remarkable machine just by itself) will set a spark in people's heart to build the same. Even if it's not a ZR-1 they rally around, it doesn't matter. Like Doug J. said "It's not the car, it's the people." and that's what I saw, and that's what I want to convey. The fantastic, world record breaking history of the car is a sweet bonus. About me, I'm an independent filmmaker. Thus far I've worked as the Executive of Operations for a small television station here in Fredericksburg, Va but I've also produced a history show titled Fredericksburg Under Ground. This will be my first feature length film. With the talent, I have on my side, the technical advisory from Dempsey and folks like yourself, and some great story telling I'm positive that we can not only refresh the legend of "The King of the Hill" but pass on the spark of passion for community that I've witnessed surrounding this supercar. I hope this sufficiently answers some of your questions. If you have more please do not hesitate to ask. You can reach me at dravinwolfproductions@gmail.com Best Regards, Stan |
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Thank you for catching that. I've been going over so many articles from so many years and try to crunch it all down into short burst to catch the imagination that sometimes the way the words are conveyed get blurred. You know the old saying "I wish I had a second pair of eyes"? Ha Ha yeah, that's an understatement in this adventure. What would be your recommendation on how I can write that post to best convey my message? Appreciate the input. Best Regards, Stan ***UPDATE*** This is a direct quote from http://www.corvetteforum.com/article...-and-overview/ "The C4 ZR-1 Corvette began production in 1990. It featured an engine built by Lotus, which was then a subsidiary of GM. This engine had an aluminum block, four overhead camshafts, and 32 valves. The motor also had an air-management system. This allowed a ?part throttle? condition which provided the option of turning off eight of the 16 intake runners and fuel injectors. A valet key allowed the driver to switch between full and normal throttle. Normal throttle produced 200 horsepower; at full throttle, the engine put out 375 horse power. At the time, General Motors had nowhere to manufacture the C4 ZR-1 engine, so it was produced by an outside manufacturer, Mercury Marine, in Stillwater, Oklahoma, U.S.A. Lotus also helped develop the ZR-1’s suspension system. Known as the FX3, this ?active suspension system? would soon become the foundation for all optional Corvette suspension systems." |
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That has actually already been brought up by Dempsey and if we can get the appropriate funding for this project then we will be there. -Stan |
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Stan,
If you want to learn about the spark of all of this, I believe you need to follow back the lineage of the ZR-1 Net Registry, and those at Lotus, MerCruiser and GM who supported us for all these years. This means reading the "Heart of the Beast" by Anthony Young to learn how the ZR-1 came about against all odds, then find out what the organization dedicated to “Keeping the Legend Alive” actually does. The heart and soul of the Registry is reflected in those enthusiasts who go out of their way to help one another "Keep the Legend Alive". The Registry was started by Dave Bright, who was passionate about the ZR-1, and left the community a legacy that continues in its 17th year. Today, our Board of Directors volunteer a considerable amount of time to continue this legacy - we love it and those who are a part of it, sharing our passion. What keeps us great are all the groups of members around the world who get together to help one another with their ZR-1s. Based upon your location, I'd recommend you travel to Jim Voter or Rich Muhr’s garage where the WAZOO group comes together regularly to work on one another's ZR-1s - Why? It’s where the real passion for these ZR-1s resides. It’s the one-on-one relationships that are established and bonds made over turning wrenches together, and being part of something greater than just us and our car. We love these cars, and welcome those who own one to become a part of our group. Never does the WAZOO or any other group take a dime for their work, and their work spans the full range of ZR-1/LT5 maintenance and upgrades. There are similar groups around the country, and it’s amazing how tight of a group we have. That’s what makes the ZR-1 community special, separating us from all other models and generations of Corvette owners. Setting the groundwork for all of this were many folks from GM, Lotus, and MerCruiser who made the improbable possible (All documented in the Heart of the Beast). Complementing their work, there were tuners such as John Lingenfelter/Graham Behan, Reeves Callaway and Doug Rippie who turned the ZR-1 into a world-class supercar, and ownership of one of these marvels remains very prestigious. The ZR-1's ability was proven on the racetrack by race owners such as Tommy Morrison, Doug Rippie, Kim Baker and Jim Van Dorn, and the limits of the LT5 continue to break all preexisting limits by folks like Pete P and Kevin C in Chicago, not to mention all the work that two of the long-standing tuners continue to do for the community - both Marc Haibeck and Corey Henderson have dedicated their lives to the ZR-1 for well over the past 15 years of my ZR-1 fellowship, and have established excellent reputations, whereas other tuners have come and gone. If you want to get an idea of what our community has been like for the past 15+ years, the ZR-1 Net Registry has documented both the evolution of the ZR-1 and the people themselves over the years in our quarterly publications. As stated, the Gathering, Corvettes at Carlisle and the TX BBQ are great places to meet the larger group, but the real heart of what we are all about likely takes place in a 2-car garage in Westminster, MD or Alexandria, VA; Chicago, IL; San Antonio, TX, etc. Anything other than capturing what the 'fellowship' we have had in this community for so many years, would be a disservice to the ZR-1 community IMHO. Outside the areas that we live in, it's about seeing other members of the Registry who we may only see once or twice a year, and greeting them like a best friend - excited to see them and hear about not only their ZR-1 exploits, but about them. It's a big family that I'm proud to be a part of. Regards, Mark |
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The C4 ZR-1 is hardly a unicorn ...
And, who is Dempsey? |
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Wow Mark, very well said.
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Click on my signature for further technical Details ALL FREE :p Marc Haibeck and Jeffvette and a few others have taught me everything I know about the LT5 and that LT5 College/University was/is ALL FREE using e-mail and Text Messaging :sign10: |
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I want to take a second and thank everyone that took the time to share their stories. I encourage everyone to continue to share them in this thread as it reminds us all how solidarity builds community. All the information you have provided will be an excellent help in making this film something we can all be proud of. Hopefully, if all goes well, I'll be meeting a lot of you in person in Kentucky.
I have downloaded the zr1.net app on my phone and I'll be checking back on this thread through-out the story writing process for inspiration but as I'm sure all of you can imagine, there's a lot of work and research ahead. Again if anyone has any questions or suggestions feel free to email me at thezr1doc@gmail.com. Yes, that's a different email address than before but it helps me stay organized :-) Just from the last couple of days of communication, I can tell I wasn't mistaken about the passion you guys have not only for the car but the bond you all have because of it. |
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Stan,
You might do well spending some time researching a group known as the "ZR-1 Owners Registry" The group started around 1992 with a very similar mission to the ZR-1 Net Registry. At one time they were rather robust and had over 1500 members. It held "gatherings" that were often well-attended, both at Bowling Green and Carlisle, as well as at the Mercruiser facility in Stillwater, Oklahoma. It was quite a bit more "Mom and Pop" than our current Registry. Larry Merow, since passed, was the editor of the Newsletter, and back then there was no internet or online presence. When Larry became ill, the organization waned, and ultimately ceased to exist before he passed away. I point it out, as it was, in it's day, performing many of the same functions, although it lacked the instantaneous nature of a web-based organization, which would have doomed it had it lasted longer but refused to migrate to the newer technology. Much of our passion for this car can be traced to those beginnings. It would be wrong to not at least give it mention in your work. Thought this might prove helpful. Thanks, :cheers: Marty |
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Who built the actual development engines?
I remember seeing the paperwork for the actual development engines and the hundreds of hours that the Engineers and Technicians at Lotus put on those engines. Lotus Engineering’s clients numbered several of the automotive world’s big players including General Motors and Chrysler and it was to both of these that non-executive chairman, Alan Curtis broached the idea of purchasing Lotus. At the time, Chrysler was none too financially secure, but GM was thriving and Bob Eaton — who oversaw much of GM’s future engineering needs — was a keen Lotus fan and, indeed, employed Lotus Engineering on advanced research and design projects. By 22 January 1986, a deal was struck and Lotus had been ‘adopted’. General Motors bought-out BCA, Schroeder-Wagg and JCB, the Americans effectively becoming the majority shareholder. After four months of co-owning Lotus with an arch-rival, Toyota sold out to GM —though it continued to supply components — and by October of the same year, GM had acquired a 91 per cent stake in Lotus. The deal had cost the US giant a paltry — in their terms — £22.7 million. by October 1986 GM had paid 22.7 million British Pound Sterling = US$27,724,513 (in todays currency) On August 27, 1993 GM sold Lotus to for £30,000,000 (British Pound Sterling=US$36,640,326) to A.C.B.N. Holdings S.A located in Luxembourg, sold again n 1996 to various companies http://www.lotusespritworld.com/imag...nk_ENTA_V8.jpg http://www.lotusespritworld.com/imag...ink_badges.jpg Excerpts in italics are from this site http://www.lotusespritworld.com/EHistory/ToyotaGM.html I remember that GM had a specification that limited the size of the engine because it had to fit through a certain opening as the body was lowered atop it. This specification ended up being smaller that it actually required on the assembly line. It was this certain spec that forced Lotus Engineers to select the camshaft sprockets diameters that they did. Ideally they wanted larger diameter sprockets which would have been better for secondary chain durability at high race rpm. |
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Whatever happened to this effort? Sounds like it would be very appropos for the Registry to be involved in. Where better to get this information?!
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If i may speak for dravin, the doc is in work, and dravin productions is going to many of the GTGs we have (gathering, carlisle)
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app |
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>The LT5 was developed jointly by Lotus and GM. >Development engines were assembled first by Lotus and later by MerCruiser >Production engines were assembled by MerCruiser. >Development continued at Lotus and MerCruiser until September of 1991. That work produced a second generation LT5, introduced for 1993, and a third generation LT5 which, by 9/91 reached the early protype stage and, had the program continued, would have been introduced in late 1994 for 1995 ZR-1. |
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Thanks for the development engine info Hib.
I always thought that the GEN 3 LT5 was destined to MY1996 when OBD2 was mandated in NA? But the LT1 came in OBD 1 and 2 versions, so no reason the LT5 couldn't as well. Just to round out the info, when did GEN 2 LT5 production at Mercuiser cease? EDIT N/m production ended November 1993. thanks |
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