track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

I had her at VIR and had a problem with up shifting to 5th. 5000 to 5500 in 4th trying to shift to 5th and she would not go. It was like CAGs or something was blocking me. No grinding or anything , she simply would not go into 5th. Sometimes I could get her into 6th. Once in the high gears, downshifting was no problem. Double clutching did not help. I remember running C5s at a school there and we had to hesitate slightly from 4th to 5th orit would bind also. Different animal but same symtom.Any ideas?
She also developed a popping at 5000 in 4th. Sounded like at my feet- maybe exhaust leak or cats popping or spark issue.
Exhaust is Corsa. All else stock.

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

Sorry, I can't help, but would recommend giving Bill Boudreau a call. Look his number up on his website. I have no doubt he could help.

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

Never driven VIR, but watched plenty of footage. Is there a need to go into 5th gear, or is staying in 4th a possibility?

Any issues driving on the street going into 5th, or is this a track only occurrence?

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

If I were a gambling man, I'd bet that your 5/6 gear synchros are nearing the end of their life.
Call Bill Boudreau:
http://www.zfdoc.com/

TomC

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

Wow man, with stock gears, running out of 4th is like 150mph! I can't say I've ever had to shift to 5th from a high rpm.

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

the question I have is why you're shifting at 5500...

however it does sound like a syncro issue

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

VIR can be done with 4th but she is winding. Temps get high for oil. I have seen 270 with air temp around 100. She my baby and I am learning so I don't stress her too much.
130-135 mph back stretch and I want a little 5th. Then you got to have brakes that will hang around.
Boudreau responded and needs more info.
Cooler today and she did fine in everyday traffic.
I wonder if I am just getting the shifter in a bind.???
Popping may be ignition coil giving up in the heat.????

Thanks for advice and comments

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

At those speeds it may be a binding that you are experiencing, but maybe not he binding that you're expecting.
Does your shifter tend to lift at higher RPM's?
Do you have Bill B.'s beam plates installed?
Are you *SURE* that you're driveline/transmission/rearend are in exact alignment?
Do you hear or feel a buzzing in the cockpit at really high rpm's (other than the engine)?
Get under the car and check to torque on the "C-Beam" bolts.

If you get enough transmission movement at speed/max RPM's, it could just be that you're shifter is lifting and binding on side of the shifter hole.

It's a WAG (Wild Azzed Guess) but it is a possibility.

TomC

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

doubt it's the syncs as the 5th gear syncs don't get loaded too much

my bet is that the shifter is binding up. still stock shifter?

also make sure the clutch is releasing. the hydraulics often get hot and you aren't getting the clutch to allow the shift

bleed it with fresh fluid, and make sure the lines aren't too close to the exh

strange that it would be fifth.

My hurst is balky going into 1st sometimes and feels "blocked" as you describe!

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

or maybe just add fluid to the clutch master.

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

Clutch fluid doesn't car if it's the 1 to 2 shift or the 4th to 5th shift. It will cause a hang up in all gears and going down.

First thing, crack open the center console to make sure everything is assembled correctly, dump the fluid inspect for a high mettalic content, then start working down the line.

I'm also wondering if you had heated the trans up to much. My local track I'm able to use 5th gear as well on nthe front straight, and can go into 5th for a brief period of time and have no issues with it doing so.

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

I know that but does the OP know that? I asked the OP some pertinent questions on the 'other' forum and got no answers so I can't be of further help.
goodbye

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

Sorry I missed talking to you at VIR. I was there as well. Being a "green" newbie, I did very little shifting into 5th. I didn't have any shifting issues with my car, but kept it in 4th on the main and front straights. It was only my second time on a track, first in the Z. 125-130 felt fast enough for me so I left it in 4th. My car ran well. No temperature issues either. Sure was fun...

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

I was really pleased with my car. I thought it held it's own. Not so sure about the driver, but I thought the car performed great in the technical sections. Here's a couple shots.

http://s128.photobucket.com/albums/p...rrent=VIR2.jpg

http://s128.photobucket.com/albums/p...rrent=VIR1.jpg

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

Thanks for all the input. I have been busy and have not tried any cure. What kind of oil temps do you see under hard driving conditions? I had no water temp problem , only oil temp at 270. RedSled90 I was not driving the NCM event. I was flagging the station leading to the bridge straight. I drove two days before the NCM event. It was nice to see another ZR1 out there. She looked and sounded good.

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

A little follow up.
My shifter is flexing. It seams the front bushing may be shot. I communicated with Boudreau a couple of times to narrow it down. Nice guy. Took the time to educate me on the 6 speed.
I changed the console plate out and while I was there I got to investigating. You could actually see the "housing " where the four acorn nuts are flex a lot to the right once the shifter made contact with the stop block but not much flex at all to the left.
I'll be looking for a shifter later. Right now I just shift a little less agressive into 5th.
I still get high oil temps when I run her hard on the north couse at VIR. Temps hit 260 and I back off and let her cool. Water temps 220 to 230. I guess I need to pull the oil cooler and clean it out.
Thanks for all the input!

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

When you buy new shifter bushings from Bill be sure to spend the xtra $$$ and buy a set of beam plates.
Install them and carefully align your engine/transmission/rear end.
I'll bet dollars to donuts that the engine/tranny/rear end are not exactly where they are supposed to be and that's what's worn out your shifter bushing.

Here's a link to Johnny "Progs" write up on installing a Hurst shifter over on that "Other Forum" (that shall not be named, 'cuz they're azzhats).
It's gots lots of nice pictures that details all the necessary steps on getting your shifter out and back in.
I don't think that there's enough play in the shifter assembly to move it enough to get to the bushings.
http://forums.*************.com/show....php?t=1063558
You will notice that there's part of the link that's been deleted and replaced with asterics (*******).
It shouldn't be too difficult to figure out what goes in the place of the asterics.
It looks something like "chevetteforum". Get it?

Good luck!!

TomC

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

This is just a fwiw on the OE oil cooler. It is just a 'pipe grid' w/no fins. I've had my stack apart to clean out the junk that the car sucks up. The air intake at the lower valence benefits greatly from the screen mod listed over at the netreg site in the how to section.

It would seem to me that the oil cooler could use some fins & it struck me that maybe a replacement from the aftermarket could be fitted that would work better under high stress situations. I suppose that under normal street situations the set up is okay, as mine rarely goes beyond 1/2 way unless I'm getting too enthusiastic with my car and at that it never geets to 3/4 on the gauge....usually I cease & desist at that point.:o

I'm not trying to be a wise guy, but when you mentioned the oil cooler & cleaning I just figured I'd offer up some eyes on info.:redface:

:thumbsup:
Tom

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

Couple of things to remember.
1. The oil cooler has a thermostat that does not open until 230 degrees so unless you reach that temp or have the thermo changed it does not matter what you do to the cooler.

2. The stock radiator/thermostat system is not friendly to rpms in excess of 5800 as it bypasses the radiator and puts it right back into the block. It starts to close it down at 5200 rpm. So it does not matter if you change the radiator you also have to do something about the thermostat and bypass. So shifting at the lower rpms in a stock engine is a good idea.

I would check to see if your beam plate bolts are tight. The tip off is if your gearshift lever raises under acceleration, if so time for a beam plate.


Tyler

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

Good to know! I feel better about mine staying at 250 just at the caution start of the caution range before the 260 max limit. That must be the ideal temp for track since that's where they put the oil thermostat? Guess it probably wouldn't be a good idea to take out the thermostat for track use, or secure it open if only running on hot days?

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

Watch the water temps. Because of the radiator/bypass design it is very easy to overheat and blow a head gasket in a race environment.

Tyler

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

[quote=Tyler Townsley]Couple of things to remember.
1. The oil cooler has a thermostat that does not open until 230 degrees so unless you reach that temp or have the thermo changed it does not matter what you do to the cooler.

The oil thermostat opens at about 185 degrees. Take a slow (60 - 70 mph) highway drive in 6th gear on a cool night and the oil temp gauge will stay between 182 and 188 the entire time.

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

[quote=zrss]Recommend you review the manual. What you are seeing is the effects of the radiator cooling on the oil temps.

Tyler

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

Let me ask a dumb question.

If the oil cooling thermostat doesn't open until the oil temp reaches 230, doesn't this mean that oil doesn't circulate through the cooler? If this is the case, then I dont think in 4 years I've ever seen anything close to 230 oil temp. How do I drain the old oil thats siting in the oil cooler? In the event that the therostat opens someday, I dont want the old oil possibly contaminating the fresh.

Am I worried about nothing?

Thanks

Rick

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

I read in the Helm manual that there is a constant minimal flow of oil allowed through the cooler at all tempuratures. The reason given was to prevent a slug of cold oil going into the engine when/if the oil thermostat opens.
Based upon that I would think that the oil cooler always has fresh engine oil inside.
One thing that I have noticed on my car is that even after a slow drive home from work the oil cooler pipes are hot. So there has to be something flowing through there even at lower operating temps.

SharkPilot

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

Correct on the minimal flow. Per an engineer on the project this minimal flow was to warm the engine oil quicker in cold climates. They found in tests done in severe cold the engine oil did not warm to the temps desired so they used used the oil cooler to warm the oil from the radiator temperature.

Tyler

Re: track day problems, 4th to 5th
 

Thanks for the answers...