"Value" Trends

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

A single event does not constitute a trend.


When it happens time after time, now you might have something.


The following article from 01/30/2019, continues the observations noted over the last 2-5 years.


Sifting through what is written month after month, and reading all of the comments from actual owners, one begins to see some empirical evidence of what we talk about here year after year.


The take-aways for me:


1- The 40-60 crowd buys the most cars, and spend the most per car.


2- Some cars will always be "valuable"


3- Collector cars have ALWAYS been the domain of the aging car lover.


4- Some very enjoyable cars are becoming great bargains


5- Mid Year Corvette Value Trends are troubling if you are an owner, but portend well for drooling lustful buyers.


6- and the most recurring theme...……………………..


CARS OF THE 80'S and 90"s are the up and coming winners.


There has been solid evidence of that in the C-3 Corvette market.
The next 10 -20 years will certainly prove interesting for C-4 Corvette
Values!


https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...30_HagertyNews


Marty

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by DRM500RUBYZR-1

CARS OF THE 80'S and 90"s are the up and coming winners.

There has been solid evidence of that in the C-3 Corvette market.
The next 10 -20 years will certainly prove interesting for C-4 Corvette
Values!

Marty

Let's face it, only three years of the C3 fall into the 80's. And they are easily the three least desirable C3's. And while 80's and 90's cars are slowly creeping back up from their peak a year or two ago, the C4 and ZR1 aren't. The ZR1 is in the midst of midst of a year long decline. It's not alone, Ferrari 308's and Testarossa's have both declined in the same time period. The NSX had a dip as well, and other than that has flat lined.

I think a big part of why some cars, like the BMW's, Nissan's, Mitsubishi's, Honda's etc. have increased while their higher performance brethren have not is the perception of parts availability and cost of ownership. I can find everything for my early M3 readily and it has strong aftermarket support. Going out to find Acura NSX parts isn't quite so simple. People want cars they can drive and show off without feeling like a minor incident would turn their investment into a paperweight.

That being said, the perception of Corvettes is still that it's a car for middle aged white men going through a mid life crisis. And I don't think it will ever shake that. Ferraris are exactly that as well, but for whatever reason, the public doesn't view them that way.

The 91 on here with 1790 miles is not encouraging as to where the market is heading. Nor is the completely sorted 1990 with 30k. And we are going through another phase of parts being dumped on Ebay.

Interestingly enough, early Vipers have been dropping about the same as ZR1s.

[G8nightman]

Originally Posted by spork2367

Let's face it, only three years of the C3 fall into the 80's. And they are easily the three least desirable C3's. And while 80's and 90's cars are slowly creeping back up from their peak a year or two ago, the C4 and ZR1 aren't. The ZR1 is in the midst of midst of a year long decline. It's not alone, Ferrari 308's and Testarossa's have both declined in the same time period. The NSX had a dip as well, and other than that has flat lined.

I think a big part of why some cars, like the BMW's, Nissan's, Mitsubishi's, Honda's etc. have increased while their higher performance brethren have not is the perception of parts availability and cost of ownership. I can find everything for my early M3 readily and it has strong aftermarket support. Going out to find Acura NSX parts isn't quite so simple. People want cars they can drive and show off without feeling like a minor incident would turn their investment into a paperweight.

That being said, the perception of Corvettes is still that it's a car for middle aged white men going through a mid life crisis. And I don't think it will ever shake that. Ferraris are exactly that as well, but for whatever reason, the public doesn't view them that way.

The 91 on here with 1790 miles is not encouraging as to where the market is heading. Nor is the completely sorted 1990 with 30k. And we are going through another phase of parts being dumped on Ebay.

Interestingly enough, early Vipers have been dropping about the same as ZR1s.

I have seen NSX's, 308's and Testarossa's all sell for good money in the last year.... and also 94 95 BMW 850CSI's jump in value some fetching over 100 grand.

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by G8nightman

I have seen NSX's, 308's and Testarossa's all sell for good money in the last year.... and also 94 95 BMW 850CSI's jump in value some fetching over 100 grand.

Sure, here and there they sell high, but the overall picture tells a different story. Here are market valuations for the three over the last three years. First is NSX, then 308, then Testarossa's. For comparison is an excel chart of the last three years of NSX sales on BAT. Orange line is average of all sales, black dots are moving range average of an interval of 6 and the red lines is the moving range average with an interval of 15. What the moving range does is smooth out individual variations to show the larger trend. Notice how close the red line is to approaching Hagerty's chart. That says that BAT, even though it is only one source, is pretty representative of what the market is bringing for NSX's.

But in the end, all we have to look at is what ZR1's are and aren't selling for. Marty dropped 10k off his low mileage ZR1's a couple months ago and they still haven't sold. Right here on the forum sit several nice cars, for prices that people on here would say were "giving them away," but yet they are unsold as well. If there is going to be any significant upturn, it's got awhile before it starts.

[G8nightman]

LOL thanks for the info I think I have a headache after trying to read the charts not planing on selling my 91 anytime soon maybe the the 95 will see how it goes.

[EvanZR1]

I'll never be able to sell mine after spending the money to do a 391, not that I'd want to get rid of it, but I do think I might be an early indicator that interest in ZR-1s could be on an upswing. Late 40s, have the money to have a weekend/fun car, and got tired of it being a newer model that plenty of other people have and wanted something that I lusted over as a teenager. Thus buy a restored higher mileage C4 ZR-1 in a unique color and then be willing to spend a bunch of money on it doing a 391 to make it something I'd always wanted. I'm hopefull that as more of my age group get into their early to mid 50s, they will have the money to buy their teenage dream cars, and the ZR-1 is definitely one of those.

[G8nightman]

Hey Spork quick question why are you always so quick to frown on threads that talk about a upswing on prices or valuations on the ZR1?

[Mystic ZR-1]

[QUOTE=...
That being said, the perception of Corvettes is still that it's a car for middle aged white men going through a mid life crisis.....” [/QUOTE]

I take issue with that statement!!!

I’m a 12 year old that never grew up!
(just ask my wife....) 😋

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Originally Posted by EvanZR1

I'll never be able to sell mine after spending the money to do a 391, not that I'd want to get rid of it, but I do think I might be an early indicator that interest in ZR-1s could be on an upswing. Late 40s, have the money to have a weekend/fun car, and got tired of it being a newer model that plenty of other people have and wanted something that I lusted over as a teenager. Thus buy a restored higher mileage C4 ZR-1 in a unique color and then be willing to spend a bunch of money on it doing a 391 to make it something I'd always wanted. I'm hopefull that as more of my age group get into their early to mid 50s, they will have the money to buy their teenage dream cars, and the ZR-1 is definitely one of those.

Evan,
It has been happening for over 50 years and has firmly caught up with the C-3's, which were lackluster only s very few years ago.
Now, all of my low mile original, or well-restored C-3's are selling for well over original sticker.
While some argue the trend will die with the C-4's and offer their thoughts as to why, that seems a bit unrealistic given what has and continues to happen!
However, I also have a Grand National in the showroom as well!!!
Marty

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by G8nightman

Hey Spork quick question why are you always so quick to frown on threads that talk about a upswing on prices or valuations on the ZR1?

It's not frowning if it's reality. It's called pragmatism. The guys who want to constantly use the phrase "given away," for every sale that doesn't meet their expectation of what the car "should" be worth don't add any value to these discussions. Sure, they should be worth more. But they aren't. These cars aren't on the upswing, implying that they are going to be soon is unrealistic because they haven't followed the trends of any of their 80's or 90's brethren.

My outlook for the future (which is just opinion) is based on similarities and dissimilarities with other makes and models and their price trends. It's cynical I suppose, but still based on numbers.

I'm an engineer, so I don't base my assessments of situations on hopes and dreams. Plus, I don't have a car or parts that I bought at the peak of the market, so I don't have to be so wishful about values as others are.

I've made careful purchases, and the worst purchases I've made would be "break even" sales if I had to make them today. I would stand to make a lot of money if they value of these cars and parts skyrocketed. But when guys on here have needed hard to find parts (DIS module, fuel pump assembly) I've stepped up and sold them for very fair prices so those guys could keep their cars running.

The forum can be a "feel good" place without being unrealistic. Personally, I don't want to see these cars fly through the roof in value, or the average person won't be able to own them and they won't get driven. But I personally don't control the value. I don't want to see them tank either and have them get rode hard and put away wet.

Originally Posted by DRM500RUBYZR-1

Now, all of my low mile original, or well-restored C-3's are selling for well over original sticker.

Not adjusted for inflation they aren't. But such are the stories of a car salesmen...