Alternator or Battery??? - Page 2 - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

tomtom72 · 10-01-2009

I thought that the Optima's were "gel-cells"? How do you do a S-G test on a gel electrolyte?

My gold top A/Zone battery is just starting to yield the same symptoms as yours. Mine is 4.5 yrs old. I had to look up my receipt as I forgot how old it was exactly.

Your test of the alternator's output seems to be well within the specs. A load test would be best. I would suspect that if you can't recall exactly how old the battery is, that it is 5 or 5+ yrs old.....usually we remember spending big doe and getting short changed....that it is past it's prime. just my two cents.

This was told to me by an Interstate rep a looooong time ago, so fwiw. Usually the electrolyte only has so much life. The reaction due to the charge/discharge cycle creates salt which collects at the bottom of the case and eventually reaches the bottom of the plates and thus creates a short across two plates. The better the salt connection, the better the short. The longer the posted life of the battery, the bigger the space from the bottom of the case to the bottom of the plates. Taken together these two circumstances kill the battery's ability to hold a charge and have output. I don't know if this applies to a Gel-Cell type battery with spiral plates, but the chemical reactions that take place have to be analogous and the "plates" still have to be suspended for it to be a battery.

Tom

-=Jeff=- · 10-01-2009

Yeah I figure a battery is a good start.. then if needed I will swap the Alt.

So what is the recommended Battery. I don't need to have a NCRS Correct battery

-=Jeff=- · 10-01-2009

Oh, I will probably run the car with the AC Compressor on and check the Voltage too..

that is when I noticed it yesterday with the gauge as I was running Defrost

tomtom72 · 10-01-2009

That's how I check mine...kind of. I don't have a load tester either. I usually start the car and let it recover then I turn stuff on progressively and take a V reading after each accessory is on.

My gold top was expensive, almost $80.00(?) when new. It didn't fit without me doing some trimming to the part of the case that forms the holder for the built in strap. It stuck out too far and I couldn't get the gill panel to sit right. So, I give the A/Z battery a C+ in the value dept. To be fair it lives in an abusive environment. The car is only used about 5k miles a yr., and that is hard on a battery.

I just don't know what other brand I have confidence in to tell another person to buy. I may just do a price comparo of 5 yr batteries and try something in the middle of the price range of all the brand name ones???

Tom

gbrtng · 10-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Jeff=-

Yeah I figure a battery is a good start.. then if needed I will swap the Alt.

So what is the recommended Battery. I don't need to have a NCRS Correct battery

WalMart's are guaranteed for 3 years free replacement - made by Johnson Controls just like the current ACDelcos, but better warrantee.

Dynomite · 10-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbrtng

WalMart's are guaranteed for 3 years free replacement - made by Johnson Controls just like the current ACDelcos, but better warrantee.

I like WalMart's guarantee......and any WalMart will replace a battery.
Do you know which WalMart battery FITS without modifications?

Ccmano · 10-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbrtng

WalMart's are guaranteed for 3 years free replacement - made by Johnson Controls just like the current ACDelcos, but better warrantee.

that's what I did... as for your battery, get it checked, there is no other way to know. A battery can have good voltage and still be bad.
H

batchman · 10-01-2009

How many miles on the car?

I don't know GMs charging setup but my experience has been as you run up miles, alternator brushes will wear and give less output at idle/low rpm. A car with an idiot light will show this first as a low glow at idle. The last several I've had to worry about were at 120-150k miles or so.

The other popular alt failure is in regulation, which is often integrated into the alt, which will be a sudden total failure.

Good luck,
- Jeff

-=Jeff=- · 10-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by batchman

How many miles on the car?

I don't know GMs charging setup but my experience has been as you run up miles, alternator brushes will wear and give less output at idle/low rpm. A car with an idiot light will show this first as a low glow at idle. The last several I've had to worry about were at 120-150k miles or so.

The other popular alt failure is in regulation, which is often integrated into the alt, which will be a sudden total failure.

Good luck,
- Jeff

63K miles

gbrtng · 10-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ccmano

that's what I did... as for your battery, get it checked, there is no other way to know. A battery can have good voltage and still be bad.
H

My local WalMart has a hand-held tester which is hooked to the battery terminals and in about two minutes a thermal paper printout gives the battery analysis. I'm guessing it does a load test at about 20 amps and watches the voltage drop over time. The test is done in the vehicle with the battery terminals connected. If the test says fail, replace battery you get a new one if the original Wally battery is newer than 3 years - no charge.

And the C4 uses a group 72 battery - just get one with enough cold cranking amps.

10-01-2009	#11
tomtom72 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Jacksonville, FL USA Posts: 4,645	Re: Alternator or Battery??? I thought that the Optima's were "gel-cells"? How do you do a S-G test on a gel electrolyte? My gold top A/Zone battery is just starting to yield the same symptoms as yours. Mine is 4.5 yrs old. I had to look up my receipt as I forgot how old it was exactly. Your test of the alternator's output seems to be well within the specs. A load test would be best. I would suspect that if you can't recall exactly how old the battery is, that it is 5 or 5+ yrs old.....usually we remember spending big doe and getting short changed....that it is past it's prime. just my two cents. This was told to me by an Interstate rep a looooong time ago, so fwiw. Usually the electrolyte only has so much life. The reaction due to the charge/discharge cycle creates salt which collects at the bottom of the case and eventually reaches the bottom of the plates and thus creates a short across two plates. The better the salt connection, the better the short. The longer the posted life of the battery, the bigger the space from the bottom of the case to the bottom of the plates. Taken together these two circumstances kill the battery's ability to hold a charge and have output. I don't know if this applies to a Gel-Cell type battery with spiral plates, but the chemical reactions that take place have to be analogous and the "plates" still have to be suspended for it to be a battery. Tom __________________ 1990 ZR-1, Black/grey, #2233, stock. ZR-1 Net Reg Founding Member #316 & NCM member

10-01-2009	#12
-=Jeff=- Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bartlett, IL Posts: 7,152	Re: Alternator or Battery??? Yeah I figure a battery is a good start.. then if needed I will swap the Alt. So what is the recommended Battery. I don't need to have a NCRS Correct battery __________________ 1990 Corvette ZR-1 #1051 Watson Headers (2" Primary) - Flowmaster Cats - Borla Catback Late Model IH - Plenum Coilovers - 4.10s Custom Interior NCM Lifetime Member #978

10-01-2009	#13
-=Jeff=- Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bartlett, IL Posts: 7,152	Re: Alternator or Battery??? Oh, I will probably run the car with the AC Compressor on and check the Voltage too.. that is when I noticed it yesterday with the gauge as I was running Defrost __________________ 1990 Corvette ZR-1 #1051 Watson Headers (2" Primary) - Flowmaster Cats - Borla Catback Late Model IH - Plenum Coilovers - 4.10s Custom Interior NCM Lifetime Member #978

10-01-2009	#14
tomtom72 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Jacksonville, FL USA Posts: 4,645	Re: Alternator or Battery??? That's how I check mine...kind of. I don't have a load tester either. I usually start the car and let it recover then I turn stuff on progressively and take a V reading after each accessory is on. My gold top was expensive, almost $80.00(?) when new. It didn't fit without me doing some trimming to the part of the case that forms the holder for the built in strap. It stuck out too far and I couldn't get the gill panel to sit right. So, I give the A/Z battery a C+ in the value dept. To be fair it lives in an abusive environment. The car is only used about 5k miles a yr., and that is hard on a battery. I just don't know what other brand I have confidence in to tell another person to buy. I may just do a price comparo of 5 yr batteries and try something in the middle of the price range of all the brand name ones??? Tom __________________ 1990 ZR-1, Black/grey, #2233, stock. ZR-1 Net Reg Founding Member #316 & NCM member

10-01-2009	#18
batchman Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: I live at Devens, one run at a time Posts: 455	Re: Alternator or Battery??? How many miles on the car? I don't know GMs charging setup but my experience has been as you run up miles, alternator brushes will wear and give less output at idle/low rpm. A car with an idiot light will show this first as a low glow at idle. The last several I've had to worry about were at 120-150k miles or so. The other popular alt failure is in regulation, which is often integrated into the alt, which will be a sudden total failure. Good luck, - Jeff __________________ [I]91 ZR-1 #1840, autocrossing in SCCA BSP. FIC S/S's DRM chip/Watson/Borla/lid/LW batt&headlights, springs, shocks, pads & lines, quick rack & Turn One, camber brace, 32/22mm sways, A/C halfway deleted 17x11 & 12 CCW's, 315 & 335 Hoosier A6s [/I]