Seriously guys, wtf...

[jcruz]

Originally Posted by Z Factor

There is certainly some irony here. You are one of the few people who engaged in thread bombing of a political nature, then ask that politics be removed from the forum. Now your attempted explanation for this is that you were getting focus on the issue, as opposed to my general comment there was a tit for tat exchange going on by several posters.

My focus is to try and keep the forum running as smoothly as possible, while still allowing everyone to express their points of view(popular or not). In most instances this has been accomplished with politics being part of the discussion over the last 7 years, since the Off Topic section was created.
So while you believe politics will return once my suggestion of a moratorium is over, I suspect things will return to normal as the history of the board has proved.
I also would proffer for your consideration the possibility of greater strife saying politics is prohibited. Keep in mind that what is political to one person, might not be to another. Sure the obvious posts of Dem this, or Rep that, are easy enough to spot.
However Jcruz gives a perfect example of where criticism of GM can be viewed from a political lens. All it would take is genuine criticism of manufacturing defects that could be blamed on union workers, for some to press the report button as a forum rules violation. Then it winds up being the digression of the first moderator who sees the report as to whether it is political or not, and what to do about it.

Still, with that said, I do not object to the notion of removing political thought from the Off Topic section if that is what the majority of forum goers want.
That is why I made a suggestion, and have asked others to give their viewpoints.

Exactly...have a short moratorium and self-regulate. Things will be back to normal soon enough, unless someone is simply looking to stir the pot.

John

[Z Factor]

Originally Posted by Kevin

i don't want to see political discussion, I've asked you privately and I'll ask you publicly, if you continue to allow political discussion and it comes up when I hit "new posts" revoke my access to whatever part of the forum it's in

Hi Kevin,

If you read my last post you will see that we are amenable to removal of politics from the forum if that is what a significant number of forum members wish.
As to your suggestion about removal from certain parts of the forum, the only section anything even remotely identifiable as overtly political, is the Off Topic section. Before we do that in your case, lets see what other forum members would like to see happen.

I will work on a poll that gives several different options as to how we can best address this issue.

[scottfab]

Originally Posted by Z Factor

...snip...
Now your attempted explanation for this is that you were getting focus on the issue, as opposed to my general comment there was a tit for tat exchange going on by several posters.
snip....

I'm sorry my confession is met with skepticism on motive.
Sad really. But you know, I really don't care if you believe it.
Fact is it worked.
Rather than knock my motive why not focus on a solution?

Sure try your temp fix of a "moratorium". Doing something would be good. But how will you enforce that? Isn't there the same "oh no what about a GM topic" issue?

When I get flat due to a nail in my tire, sure I can just put more "air" in it but I prefer to "fix" the problem. Otherwise I have to keep coming back to it again and again and again. Now I could tell myself "gee how often to I get a nail" and just keep putting air in when it goes low.

You know at one point I would have supported free and open subject matter on the form. It hasn't worked when it comes to political issues and as the political climate get's more polarized in the next 4yrs (yes this would be on the other side of a temp moratorium) it's just going to get worse.
If not fixed we'll be right back here again.

What I don't understand mostly is the attitude toward folks that just want to get off the notification for posts out of "OFF TOPIC". What Kevin went for would work. There is no impact but for those volunteering. Then best solution is to fix "New Posts" to just not show political to those that don't want to see it, as some have suggested.

Finally, you may choose to call it thread bombing or tit for tat. I call it balancing the slams.

[Z Factor]

Originally Posted by scottfab

I'm sorry my confession is met with skepticism on motive.
Sad really. But you know, I really don't care if you believe it.
Fact is it worked.
Rather than knock my motive why not focus on a solution?

I will try to directly address your post, then get back to figuring out how to come up with a poll that can cover all aspects of this discussion.

I am not questioning your motive, rather your methods. If my response did not convey the latter, that was my intent. To use a hasty analogy, if you want to call attention to a fire, you do not make it bigger to draw attention to it. Your subsequent thread/poll as to how to address the issue was certainly a more productive means of accomplishing your stated goal.

Originally Posted by scottfab

Sure try your temp fix of a "moratorium". Doing something would be good. But how will you enforce that? Isn't there the same "oh no what about a GM topic" issue?

From a logistical standpoint, it is much easier to deal with those determinations on a temporary basis, rather than on a permanent basis. That combined with an invertible subsiding of political angst once the election is over makes a temporary restriction more logical than a permanent prohibition in my view. However I am certainly open to other perspectives, hence the request for other points of view.

Originally Posted by scottfab

What I don't understand mostly is the attitude toward folks that just want to get off the notification for posts out of "OFF TOPIC". What Kevin went for would work. There is no impact but for those volunteering. Then best solution is to fix "New Posts" to just not show political to those that don't want to see it, as some have suggested.

There is no problem with removing those who wish to stop seeing threads in a particular section/New Posts. As a matter of reference, there is at least one forum member that requested access to the Corvette Babes section be removed for the sake of he and his family. We were happy to accommodate his request without restricting other forum members ability to participate.
My only point when addressing Kevin was that it might be premature or hasty to make such a decision prior to seeing how this all works outs.

However if he, you, or anyone else would like us to remove your access to the OT, it can certain be accomplished upon request.

Originally Posted by scottfab

Finally, you may choose to call it thread bombing or tit for tat. I call it balancing the slams.

At the risk of sounding redundant, I respectfully disagree with how you went about this. If your political view is in the minority, I would think your ability to express your opposing point of view would be something your appreciated and cherished on a forum like ours.
Instead, if I understand your reasoning correctly, you purposely exacerbated a problem in an effort to draw attention to it. That seems illogical at best. Now you are asking that the forum change it's policy to restrict other forum members from exercising their ability to post their perspective on political issues. That also seems counterintuitive to your expressed posts.
Regardless, this is not a decision I intend to make on my own, and have asked for input not only from the forum members, but also members of the BOD as well. Just because the OT has been reasonably strife free from a political angst standpoint, that is no assurance it will always remain that way. The question is how we can best accommodate your request, without over moderating the forum and restricting other members. Hopefully the upcoming poll will help us to figure that out.

[jcruz]

Originally Posted by Z Factor

I will try to directly address your post, then get back to figuring out how to come up with a poll that can cover all aspects of this discussion.

I am not questioning your motive, rather your methods. If my response did not convey the latter, that was my intent. To use a hasty analogy, if you want to call attention to a fire, you do not make it bigger to draw attention to it. Your subsequent thread/poll as to how to address the issue was certainly a more productive means of accomplishing your stated goal.



From a logistical standpoint, it is much easier to deal with those determinations on a temporary basis, rather than on a permanent basis. That combined with an invertible subsiding of political angst once the election is over makes a temporary restriction more logical than a permanent prohibition in my view. However I am certainly open to other perspectives, hence the request for other points of view.



There is no problem with removing those who wish to stop seeing threads in a particular section/New Posts. As a matter of reference, there is at least one forum member that requested access to the Corvette Babes section be removed for the sake of he and his family. We were happy to accommodate his request without restricting other forum members ability to participate.
My only point when addressing Kevin was that it might be premature or hasty to make such a decision prior to seeing how this all works outs.

However if he, you, or anyone else would like us to remove your access to the OT, it can certain be accomplished upon request.



At the risk of sounding redundant, I respectfully disagree with how you went about this. If your political view is in the minority, I would think your ability to express your opposing point of view would be something your appreciated and cherished on a forum like ours.
Instead, if I understand your reasoning correctly, you purposely exacerbated a problem in an effort to draw attention to it. That seems illogical at best. Now you are asking that the forum change it's policy to restrict other forum members from exercising their ability to post their perspective on political issues. That also seems counterintuitive to your expressed posts.
Regardless, this is not a decision I intend to make on my own, and have asked for input not only from the forum members, but also members of the BOD as well. Just because the OT has been reasonably strife free from a political angst standpoint, that is no assurance it will always remain that way. The question is how we can best accommodate your request, without over moderating the forum and restricting other members. Hopefully the upcoming poll will help us to figure that out.

Z Factor: they don't pay you enough

[FU]

Originally Posted by jcruz

Z Factor: they don't pay you enough

I agree , Bryan need's a raise

[MickeyD]

You know guys, I have no problem with political discussion here at all. It's the reason it's called "Off Topic". Sure seems like some who want to stop are the ones doing the name calling and such. I have spiritedly debated on this forum, but have never called anyone names. Geez, are we not men here! It's sounds like "Mommy he called me a poo-pooh head." Good Lord, grow up. Although I don't like being called names, I'm a big boy, I can take it. It seems to me that if one side is allowed to say the other are idiots and why, why can it not be answered. This is the USA, no one has a monopoly on what is right. What I see is some members want their side put out but anyone who disagrees must be shut down. Is this really what we've come too. It's an "Off Topic" forum, don't want your little feelings hurt, don't read it. I enjoy the discussion and would like to see it continued without PC rules.

Just my opinion, worth what you pay for it.

Btw, for all who disagree with anything I say....I still want a 2013 ZR1!

[scottfab]

Originally Posted by Z Factor

.... snip...
At the risk of sounding redundant, I respectfully disagree with how you went about this. If your political view is in the minority, I would think your ability to express your opposing point of view would be something your appreciated and cherished on a forum like ours.
Instead, if I understand your reasoning correctly, you purposely exacerbated a problem in an effort to draw attention to it. That seems illogical at best.

You can disagree with my method. I really don't care. You can call it immature or not the best or whatever. The desired attention would simply not have been the effective without getting others to step up and volunteer the idea of shutting politics off. I'll post this yet again. I did not come up with that solution. I merely seconded the idea and many others followed (left and right) I also put up several other options so don't say I was pushing to have Politics removed as the only option or that I was the originator or the only proponent.

Originally Posted by Z Factor

Now you are asking that the forum change it's policy to restrict other forum members from exercising their ability to post their perspective on political issues. That also seems counterintuitive to your expressed posts.

You are absolutely and totally incorrect. I am not. I am asking for some sort of solution. And that it not be just putting air into the tire as a temp fix but that a root cause and fix happen. You say my methods for getting attention were bad and that I should have asked. Well?? what am I (and many others) asking? To date my only countermeasure for hate posts is to offer logic and possibly a counter point through a different thread. But then if I was able to see "OFF TOPIC" posts minus the Political, well then.

Originally Posted by Z Factor

Regardless, this is not a decision I intend to make on my own, and have asked for input not only from the forum members, but also members of the BOD as well. Just because the OT has been reasonably strife free from a political angst standpoint, that is no assurance it will always remain that way.

Exactly so. The division in the nation will be reflected here as well. It will continue and likely get worse as nations frustrations are fanned by hate, made up BS stories and class warfare. Which ever way it goes there will be extreme bad feelings and complaints of "oh well he only won because....." just like last election. Imagine how much more we could focus on car issues if we we all not exposed to the crap? Those that want crap could opt in. Some just want out but still see OFF TOPIC issues.

Originally Posted by Z Factor

The question is how we can best accommodate your request, without over moderating the forum and restricting other members. Hopefully the upcoming poll will help us to figure that out.

It would seem obvious. Make a cat litter box for those that want to dump in it . No moderation would be needed. It could be open season for those in there. (short of physical threats) The rest of us would not see or need to see. I run some Facebook forums and that's the separation we've imposed on ourselves. There is a litter box area.
Works well and virtually no moderation is need (except the one individual that indeed made a threat to another member)

For those that want to point and say "oh the irony of someone...... that posts the opposing view wanting to liming being able to do so" ?
Again the real goal is to get what's left in the cat litter box out of my face and others have said as much also.

I'm pretty well done with this thread. I await the action or inaction of those making decisions.

[MickeyD]

Ok, I'm gonna say it. Now the one doing most of the pontification on the forums and occasional hard hitting wants to set up the rules for the rest of us. "Oops I just hit you in the nose. I now make the rule you can't defend yourself."

Unbelievable, Really? I'm not trying to be a jerk but com' on man!

[MickeyD]

Sorry guys. I want to make one more point. I would invite all of you to look at the front page of OT forum. Look at the author of most of them. Now he knows whats best for all and (bow) he'll set it up.
You know, I love ZR1's, I'm not a mechanic at all so I don't join in on all the forums, however I find General and Techinical very helpful. I also love the site. I also love to state my opinion when things I believe in are attacked. I won't sit quietly and be preached too. Don't give in to this.