The Dreaded No Start

[scottfab]

Originally Posted by Jagdpanzer

Jerry's previous post is correct. When this topic was going around a while back I gave a set of NOS heads I have a thurough look over up on the bench. Tried the actuator positioned both ways. Installed straight it would bind the linkage and not fully open the secondaries when vacuum was applaid. Installed the other way with an angle the linkage ran smooth fully opening the secondaries.

That was not my experience . Given enough vacuum it would power it's way open. But turned such that the angle was straight and even a moderate vacuum could open it. It's one of those things that can lead to an unreliable and problematic secondary system. It's a given that there are a lot of aspects to the secondary system that can fail. Removing root cause issues is imperative to lowering the probability of an unsatisfactory WOT experience. This is but one.

[scottfab]

Originally Posted by WVZR-1

Here's a rather recent comment but not the one I recall, mentions the same things though!

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1582935484-post12.html

Something is amiss. We need pictures and/or video.
The descriptions in the link are based on "he said/ she said" from the factory. There is no question in my mind but that the straightening out of the pull is the right thing to do, "L" bracket or no.
As I recall I may have had to tweak that L bracket to accomplish the desired effect.
Overall though this would not be the first time things done on purpose at the factory ended up being wrong in so far as reliability is concerned. Sometimes things are simply done to be expeditious.

On the other hand what some are calling "upside down" may in fact be "right side up" ?

[WVZR-1]

Originally Posted by scottfab

Something is amiss. We need pictures and/or video.
The descriptions in the link are based on "he said/ she said" from the factory. There is no question in my mind but that the straightening out of the pull is the right thing to do, "L" bracket or no.
As I recall I may have had to tweak that L bracket to accomplish the desired effect.
Overall though this would not be the first time things done on purpose at the factory ended up being wrong in so far as reliability is concerned. Sometimes things are simply done to be expeditious.

On the other hand what some are calling "upside down" may in fact be "right side up" ?

Scott - I didn't expect you to be particularly "receptive" to the information! Having many vacuum actuators of various styles apart and understanding how the linkage is attached to the diaphragm in most of them, Jerry's comments make sense. Your comment "he said/she said" was an expected comment after your "matter of fact" statement that I only pointed out was something that had been discussed further, you certainly didn't disappoint there!

[scottfab]

Originally Posted by WVZR-1

Scott - I didn't expect you to be particularly "receptive" to the information! Having many vacuum actuators of various styles apart and understanding how the linkage is attached to the diaphragm in most of them, Jerry's comments make sense. Your comment "he said/she said" was an expected comment after your "matter of fact" statement that I only pointed out was something that had been discussed further, you certainly didn't disappoint there!

I really don't want to get to the pissing match just yet. I'd rather stick to some facts. The reason for mentioning "he said she said" is that there is nothing useful in saying a GM guy said such and such. Carries no proof that the way to do it is right because.......blah blah blah.
And as far as not disappointing you, sounds like you would like to just argue. You'll have to look elsewhere for that.

Now then. About the issue.
Without pulling my plenum (which I haven't had to do in over 10yrs) and video the smooth and straight pull of the L bracket can we come up with some pictures or video? Let's to that instead of using indirect testimony.
I'm on my roof today doing some flashing but will be in and out cooling down. Later on I'll look for my pics. This issue needs to probably move to an old thread or start a new one. We're kind on a thread title that is a non segue. At issue is: binding AND damage to the diaphragm by pulling at an angle (sideways).

[Bearly Flying]

I pulled one of the actuators and flipped it around and tested each with a vacuum pump. Doesn't appear to be any binding on either one, takes the same amount of vacuum to open to full throttle

Linkage as found


Rotated Canister to straighten alignment



Scott, Your right. Sorry about the hijack. I will start a new thread.

Don

[Bearly Flying]

To finish off the Starter thread. Pics of the solenoid contact and plunger.

[A26B]

By request from the OP, Barely Flying, please find the following, FACTUAL information regarding "Secondary actuators installed backwards at the factory";

In actuality, this is simply not accurate.

Chris Allen, Assembly Manager and Scott Skinner, Engine Building Supervisor, were Mercury Marine employees on the LT5 project. I am proud to say that both are good friends of mine. I also personally know several of the girls who worked on the LT5 assembly line. My information comes directly from all of the above.

The facts are:
1. The linkage arm sits to one side of center due to an "L" bend in the arm for attachment to the actuator diaphram.

2. The actuator was initially installed with the diaphram linkage "straight in line with the secondary linkage bellcrank.Binding/dragging was evident, so the actuator was turned over to align the center of the actuator diaphram with the bellcrank. The linkage was angled but the pull was straight and aligned with the actuator. No more binding, quicker & smoother operation.

3. The LT5 was essentially a hand-built engine produced to race engine tolerances, by Mercury employees who filled voluntary positions with no guarantee that the positions they were leaving, earned by time & performance, would be available to them after the LT5 program was completed. They were a team of highly skilled and motivated personnel.

4. The ocassional posts about "a woman" doing sub-standard work is unfounded and unwarranted. To further promote baseless rumors only serves to promote mis-truths about the LT5 and cast an undeserving bad light on individuals who consider the LT5 program at Mercury Marine in Stillwater, OK, the highlight of their entire career.

THE BOTTOM LINE: The actuators work best and are supposed to be installed with the linkage bar angled to the secondary linkage bellcrank, to achieve a straight pull from the diaphram. Do not rotate the actuator to obtain a straight linkage bar.

[Bearly Flying]

Thanks Jerry, actually I started a second thread on this. Hope you don.t mind but I will copy it over there.

Good info, Thanks

[Z51JEFF]

I have an NOS safety switch AC Delco part #D2213A if the OP needs it,$100 is what I paid.Ive had a few no start issues with my 91.Ive replaced the OEM starter relay and also ran a second ground From the starter relay,so far no issues but this has only happened a few times in all the years Ive had the car.Ive got the secondary relay if the problem continues.When I was looking for the safety switch it was nowhere to be found,lots of places had it listed on there websites but when t came time to order one,no deal.

[gbmidyear66]

Been overseas for a week on business, come back and this thread has taken on a life of its own. Anyhow, all good stuff

Z51JEFF - thanks for the offer, but I am inclined to think my issue was most likely an incorrect key read by the VATS. I'm going to leave the clutch switch as is. I put the hush panel back in and cleaned the ignition cylinder today.

I'm going to keep a close watch on the behavior each time I try to start the car to try and isolate clutch Vs VATS - hopefully my experience was a "one of".