Oil Filters - Page 3 - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

petefias · 11-12-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by evl_twn

If your oil pressure rises faster, there's less restriction through the filter. Thoughts?

Not so.

More restriction through the filter INCREASES oil pressure (with no other changes). To support this claim I offer you two examples:

Power steering system - there is a built in check-valve to provide restriction, without it the pressure is not there. My car validated this when the check valve went south I lost power assist.

High blood pressure - caused by restricted arteries (mainly). Have not had personal experience yet.

This is one of those thing that goes against "conventional wisdom".

So it seems I'm switching to Bosch.

Tom · 11-15-2006

On a ZR-1, more filter restriction will decrease the oil pressure measured by the oil pressure sensor since it is downstream of the oil filter.

I used to belong to a Corvette club where there was another ZR-1 owner and the time to build oil pressure bothered him so much he took his car to Guldstrand and had them install a pre-luber. With the pre-luber he could already have the oil system pressurized when he started the car. They mounted the pre-luber pump/motor on the bars out in front of the power steering cooler.

evl_twn · 11-17-2006

Well, I think I'm done with the Mobil 1 filters. It has nothing to do with the ZR-1, either. I have a Mobil 1 filter on the Z right now with no problems, no chain rattle even after sitting for several days. BUT- last night I'm changing oil in my truck (2004 Dodge Ram) which I had been using the K&N filter on, but I bought a Mobil 1 when they were on sale a couple weeks ago. I got the old filter off, started threading the Mobil 1 on, and the threads just felt a lot "looser". I usually tighten my filters hand tight, then use a filter wrench to spin them maybe 1/2 turn more, and have never had a problem. I tried that with the M1, and it went about 1/4 turn then popped loose again. Yup, filter threads are stripped. And that was with almost NO tightening torque. I didn't really pay much attention to the threads on the filter I put on the ZR-1, but I think I'm going to go get a couple of the Bosch filters and put them on the shelf. I ran out and got another K&N for the truck though. I'll still use the Mobil 1 oil, but that does it for the filters.

Tom · 11-17-2006

K&N, Mobil 1, STP and Bosch filters at one time were all made by the same company (Champion Labs) to the respective companies requirements. I haven't looked at the current Bosch or STP filters, but the K&N and Mobil 1 filters look like the same filter except for the hex added to the end of the K&N filter.

Also, I had one K&N filter that had threads that were very loose and looked like they had been tapped twice, so now I look at the threads on any filter I plan to buy.

Z Factor · 11-17-2006

Something I forgot to mention earlier regarding Mobil products.

Aside from Mobil 1 providing quality oil and filters, I also support them because they supported the ZR-1 during the early years of its development. They also helped Tommy Morrison break the world record by donating money and product in his effort. They were also instrumental in figuring out how to keep the wheel bearings cool enough to sustain the 24 hours of 180 mph that was needed to break the record.

ZRXMAX · 11-29-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z Factor

They were also instrumental in figuring out how to keep the wheel bearings cool enough to sustain the 24 hours of 180 mph that was needed to break the record.

I am curious... what did they do to keep the wheel bearings from failing ?

ZR-1 Franz · 11-29-2006

Hello from Switzerland,

Read the story about the record run in "The Heart of the Beast" and you will
be well informed about the problems with the wheel bearings at high speeds
they had during the tests for this famous world record.

I wish you a good time

ZR-1 Franz `90 ZR-1 # 982

guinnessdood · 12-14-2006

Got an answer back from Exxon Mobil regarding some testing they did on their M1-207 oil filter for us...

In response to the customer questioning the subject filter performance, I can offer the following comments. There are two avenues of leak back paths in the filter. One is leakage past the rubber anti-drainback valve (check valve) back thru the outer ring of inlet holes in the filter baseplate. Silicone rubber is used for this application and provides the ultimate material for long life in extreme temperature swings. The second path is the area between the baseplate and the sheet metal gasket retaining plate. Our manufacturing process applies a ring of sealant between these two components just prior to the components being spot welded together. Occasionally skips do occur while dispensing the adhesive ring due to air pockets in the pressurized dispensing system. A real world evaluation can only be made using the actual engine application in question, a Corvette with the ZR-1 engine option. We unfortunately do not have one available to test. Unknown conditions within the engine, such as bearing wear, bearing clearances, and pump wear and clearances make it impossible to duplicate the engine characteristics in the lab. To evaluate worst and best case performance, I had a sample filter made with no sealant between the base plate and gasket retaining plate, and a sample filter made with a perfect seal between these two components. The sample filters were actually made on the assembly line using production methods. Our lab, and our competitors, typically test anti-drainback performance using the SAE HS806-2001 test standard. For our testing of the sample filters, we used Mobil 10W30 oil in place of the specified mineral oil. The filter is placed inverted on a stand while an elevated 100 ml graduated glass Burette tube filled with Mobil 1 10W30 oil is "piped" into the filter outlet. Leakage is checked, from both pathways mentioned above, based on per hour time sequence. In the SAE test, the sample with no sealant leaked 470 ml (16 oz.) in one hour. The sample with perfect sealant had zero leakage. The following evaluation was made using the same two filters with non-typical test methods. The filters were flowed at 3 gpm on a test stand using Mobil 10W30 oil for one hour at 250 F. This conditions the internal components of the filter in an environment similar to that found in the engine. The filter was weighed full of oil after being removed from the test stand, the outlet plugged, and the filter was placed inverted (like the filter mounts in the ZR-1 engine) on a ring stand placed over a drip pan. The filter was re-weighed following eight hours and the leakage through the inlet holes (past the anti-drainback valve) was reported. The leakage of the filter with no sealant was 5 grams (0.2 oz.) while leakage of the perfect filter was 0.7 grams (0.02 oz.). The two filter samples were then re-filled, re-weighed, and a 1/8 inch diameter hole was made in the dome of the filter's shell. Repeating the same eight hour test method, the leakage of the worst case filter was 1081.5 grams (38.2 oz.) while leakage of the perfect filter was zero. Design and condition of the engine gallery and effective sealant application between the filter backplate and gasket retaining plate will affect filter drain-back leakage significantly. Any occurances of less than acceptable sealant application in Mobil filters should be considered an exception to the normal level of quality.

jonszr1 · 12-20-2006

Ully, awsome post alot of work went into that thanx

petefias · 12-23-2006

Those who just purchased the Bosch 3401, what does it look like on the open side? I opened the last two boxes on AutoZone's shelf and one had a black plastic valve and 4 holes on the metal around the thread. It looks like it has a spring below the threaded part to hold the paper element in place. The other one had a red plastic valve with about a dozen smaller holes. It didn't have a spring inside. Both were black on the outside and had the 3401 sticker on them. One had a little dent so I only bought one.

Does Bosch has multiple suppliers? Why would be the construction be so different on two filters probably from the same batch of shipment? I think the important part is the filter element shape, size and they both equally capable. Just thougth it was strange...

11-15-2006	#22
Tom Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Southern CA Posts: 108	Re: Oil Filters On a ZR-1, more filter restriction will decrease the oil pressure measured by the oil pressure sensor since it is downstream of the oil filter. I used to belong to a Corvette club where there was another ZR-1 owner and the time to build oil pressure bothered him so much he took his car to Guldstrand and had them install a pre-luber. With the pre-luber he could already have the oil system pressurized when he started the car. They mounted the pre-luber pump/motor on the bars out in front of the power steering cooler.

11-17-2006	#23
evl_twn Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 116	Re: Oil Filters Well, I think I'm done with the Mobil 1 filters. It has nothing to do with the ZR-1, either. I have a Mobil 1 filter on the Z right now with no problems, no chain rattle even after sitting for several days. BUT- last night I'm changing oil in my truck (2004 Dodge Ram) which I had been using the K&N filter on, but I bought a Mobil 1 when they were on sale a couple weeks ago. I got the old filter off, started threading the Mobil 1 on, and the threads just felt a lot "looser". I usually tighten my filters hand tight, then use a filter wrench to spin them maybe 1/2 turn more, and have never had a problem. I tried that with the M1, and it went about 1/4 turn then popped loose again. Yup, filter threads are stripped. And that was with almost NO tightening torque. I didn't really pay much attention to the threads on the filter I put on the ZR-1, but I think I'm going to go get a couple of the Bosch filters and put them on the shelf. I ran out and got another K&N for the truck though. I'll still use the Mobil 1 oil, but that does it for the filters.

11-17-2006	#24
Tom Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Southern CA Posts: 108	Re: Oil Filters K&N, Mobil 1, STP and Bosch filters at one time were all made by the same company (Champion Labs) to the respective companies requirements. I haven't looked at the current Bosch or STP filters, but the K&N and Mobil 1 filters look like the same filter except for the hex added to the end of the K&N filter. Also, I had one K&N filter that had threads that were very loose and looked like they had been tapped twice, so now I look at the threads on any filter I plan to buy. Last edited by Tom; 11-17-2006 at 10:14 AM.

11-17-2006	#25
Z Factor Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: S. Florida Posts: 2,647	Re: Oil Filters Something I forgot to mention earlier regarding Mobil products. Aside from Mobil 1 providing quality oil and filters, I also support them because they supported the ZR-1 during the early years of its development. They also helped Tommy Morrison break the world record by donating money and product in his effort. They were also instrumental in figuring out how to keep the wheel bearings cool enough to sustain the 24 hours of 180 mph that was needed to break the record.

11-29-2006	#27
ZR-1 Franz Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Solothurn, Switzerland Posts: 144	Re: Oil Filters Hello from Switzerland, Read the story about the record run in "The Heart of the Beast" and you will be well informed about the problems with the wheel bearings at high speeds they had during the tests for this famous world record. I wish you a good time ZR-1 Franz `90 ZR-1 # 982

12-14-2006	#28
guinnessdood Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Woods Cross, UT Posts: 389	Re: Oil Filters Got an answer back from Exxon Mobil regarding some testing they did on their M1-207 oil filter for us... In response to the customer questioning the subject filter performance, I can offer the following comments. There are two avenues of leak back paths in the filter. One is leakage past the rubber anti-drainback valve (check valve) back thru the outer ring of inlet holes in the filter baseplate. Silicone rubber is used for this application and provides the ultimate material for long life in extreme temperature swings. The second path is the area between the baseplate and the sheet metal gasket retaining plate. Our manufacturing process applies a ring of sealant between these two components just prior to the components being spot welded together. Occasionally skips do occur while dispensing the adhesive ring due to air pockets in the pressurized dispensing system. A real world evaluation can only be made using the actual engine application in question, a Corvette with the ZR-1 engine option. We unfortunately do not have one available to test. Unknown conditions within the engine, such as bearing wear, bearing clearances, and pump wear and clearances make it impossible to duplicate the engine characteristics in the lab. To evaluate worst and best case performance, I had a sample filter made with no sealant between the base plate and gasket retaining plate, and a sample filter made with a perfect seal between these two components. The sample filters were actually made on the assembly line using production methods. Our lab, and our competitors, typically test anti-drainback performance using the SAE HS806-2001 test standard. For our testing of the sample filters, we used Mobil 10W30 oil in place of the specified mineral oil. The filter is placed inverted on a stand while an elevated 100 ml graduated glass Burette tube filled with Mobil 1 10W30 oil is "piped" into the filter outlet. Leakage is checked, from both pathways mentioned above, based on per hour time sequence. In the SAE test, the sample with no sealant leaked 470 ml (16 oz.) in one hour. The sample with perfect sealant had zero leakage. The following evaluation was made using the same two filters with non-typical test methods. The filters were flowed at 3 gpm on a test stand using Mobil 10W30 oil for one hour at 250 F. This conditions the internal components of the filter in an environment similar to that found in the engine. The filter was weighed full of oil after being removed from the test stand, the outlet plugged, and the filter was placed inverted (like the filter mounts in the ZR-1 engine) on a ring stand placed over a drip pan. The filter was re-weighed following eight hours and the leakage through the inlet holes (past the anti-drainback valve) was reported. The leakage of the filter with no sealant was 5 grams (0.2 oz.) while leakage of the perfect filter was 0.7 grams (0.02 oz.). The two filter samples were then re-filled, re-weighed, and a 1/8 inch diameter hole was made in the dome of the filter's shell. Repeating the same eight hour test method, the leakage of the worst case filter was 1081.5 grams (38.2 oz.) while leakage of the perfect filter was zero. Design and condition of the engine gallery and effective sealant application between the filter backplate and gasket retaining plate will affect filter drain-back leakage significantly. Any occurances of less than acceptable sealant application in Mobil filters should be considered an exception to the normal level of quality. Last edited by guinnessdood; 12-14-2006 at 10:14 AM.

12-20-2006	#29
jonszr1 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: lone pine and mammoth lakes Posts: 1,406	Re: Oil Filters Ully, awsome post alot of work went into that thanx

12-23-2006	#30
petefias Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 147	Re: Oil Filters Those who just purchased the Bosch 3401, what does it look like on the open side? I opened the last two boxes on AutoZone's shelf and one had a black plastic valve and 4 holes on the metal around the thread. It looks like it has a spring below the threaded part to hold the paper element in place. The other one had a red plastic valve with about a dozen smaller holes. It didn't have a spring inside. Both were black on the outside and had the 3401 sticker on them. One had a little dent so I only bought one. Does Bosch has multiple suppliers? Why would be the construction be so different on two filters probably from the same batch of shipment? I think the important part is the filter element shape, size and they both equally capable. Just thougth it was strange...