1992 ZR1 Bloomington Gold Top Flight at Mecum Question ???

[spork2367]

[QUOTE=Kevszr1;291018]

Originally Posted by DRM500RUBYZR-1

Either way it’s a shill because it’s artificially inflating the bid and someone can bid on top of you. Again, I wouldn’t get caught doing it at any auction house. ..... it’s not allowed. That’s my only point

No, it's not a shill bid. Re-read Marty's post. The auction house doesn't give a crap if a buyer or seller is getting a good deal, they are only concerned about their cut. In this case, they get their cut. In fact, their cut is higher because if the seller had let it go, it would have sold for a lower number and their cut would have been less. The seller bids it up, wins, then pays a higher percentage based on the higher selling price.

If the other bidder chooses to continue bidding, they are not being forced to do so.

They absolutely allow this, although I'm sure it isn't encouraged.

A shill bid is artificially inflating the price by having a non-buyer bid. A seller can't be a shill bidder and artificially raise the price against himself as a buyer...The seller is actually going to buy the car (which is just paying the auction house fees). They are intending to buy the car should it go for less than xxx. They are a legitimate bidder. A shill bidder has no intent to buy the car.

Shill bidding can't really happen easily at a live auction where bid retractions are more difficult and verified in person vs. an online auction where a bid retraction can be automated. i.e. you just select a reason from a drop down menu.

[Kevszr1]

[QUOTE=spork2367;291026]

Originally Posted by Kevszr1

No, it's not a shill bid. Re-read Marty's post. The auction house doesn't give a crap if a buyer or seller is getting a good deal, they are only concerned about their cut. In this case, they get their cut. In fact, their cut is higher because if the seller had let it go, it would have sold for a lower number and their cut would have been less. The seller bids it up, wins, then pays a higher percentage based on the higher selling price.

If the other bidder chooses to continue bidding, they are not being forced to do so.

They absolutely allow this, although I'm sure it isn't encouraged.

A shill bid is artificially inflating the price by having a non-buyer bid. A seller can't be a shill bidder and artificially raise the price against himself as a buyer...The seller is actually going to buy the car (which is just paying the auction house fees). They are intending to buy the car should it go for less than xxx. They are a legitimate bidder. A shill bidder has no intent to buy the car.

Shill bidding can't really happen easily at a live auction where bid retractions are more difficult and verified in person vs. an online auction where a bid retraction can be automated. i.e. you just select a reason from a drop down menu.

Again.. It is a shill bid no matter how you spin it and the auction house will pitch you to the curb if you get caught. They absolutely don’t allow it but go take your chances if ya want.

But, I suppose if you don’t put a reserve on a car and you’re stupid enough to buy it yourself and pay 20% in commission alone rather than only 10% WITH a reserve sale, then you deserve to buy your own car. Go right ahead with your shill bid.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

[QUOTE=Kevszr1;291033]

Originally Posted by spork2367

Again.. It is a shill bid no matter how you spin it and the auction house will pitch you to the curb if you get caught. They absolutely don’t allow it but go take your chances if ya want.

But, I suppose if you don’t put a reserve on a car and you’re stupid enough to buy it yourself and pay 20% in commission alone rather than only 10% WITH a reserve sale, then you deserve to buy your own car. Go right ahead with your shill bid.

Puzzled by your statement.
No "spin" here.
I know of two owners who "bought" their car back at reputable auctions.
Their bidder pass clearly identified them to all, and the house certainly had to know it was the owner paying both sides of the fee and taking the car back. The house earned their fees.
Each of these were "no reserve auctions", which I have stated I am certainly not a fan of such things.


The check was cashed.
The car released.
No one was tossed to the curb.


Agreed, not a bright thing to do, but many are convinced that their prize will pull strong money at a no reserve auction.
Someone (s) telling them that.
Perhaps the auction house or friendly experts.
But as the bids slow to a crawl, then at a low stop and desperation sets in, paying 18% or so and having another opportunity, must seem like the best alternative.


Not recommending it, not suggesting it, don't think it is a good idea.
However; It happens.


The intent of "Shill Bidding" is to drive up the price.
Shill bidding to drive up a price, certainly appears a fraudulent activity, and as such is likely against some law.


Paying 18% to essentially end the auction and retain the item, as opposed to furthering the price has a decidedly different purpose.


I would certainly suggest checking with the auction house directly and beforehand to confirm their policy on such, which also should confirm if it violates any federal, state or local law.
Marty

[spork2367]

[QUOTE=Kevszr1;291033]

Originally Posted by spork2367

Again.. It is a shill bid no matter how you spin it and the auction house will pitch you to the curb if you get caught. They absolutely don’t allow it but go take your chances if ya want.

But, I suppose if you don’t put a reserve on a car and you’re stupid enough to buy it yourself and pay 20% in commission alone rather than only 10% WITH a reserve sale, then you deserve to buy your own car. Go right ahead with your shill bid.

We aren't talking about ebay or an online auction here. Like Marty said, I'm sure there are auction houses that may not allow this. But many do. No one is going to go in planning on buying there own car, but if they misjudged the audience it is a better prospect than losing your a**.

If I'm the owner of the car, the price stalls, and I don't want it to go for a fraction of what it's worth, I'm not bidding to artificially inflate the price, I'm bidding to buy it so I only lose 20% instead of 40%. Some states have laws about shill bidding, but to prove that the intent was to artificially inflate the price vs. the intent of buying it to avoid a loss would be nearly impossible to prove.

The auction house isn't going to care because they are getting their cut no matter what. By definition, the owner can't be a "shill" because the auction house has already vetted them and know that he is the owner. This isn't like an online auction where anonymity could be used to more easily hide the identity of a bidder.

In short, it may not be allowed at every auction...but it isn't shill bidding by definition.

[Kevszr1]

[QUOTE=spork2367;291111]

Originally Posted by Kevszr1

We aren't talking about ebay or an online auction here. Like Marty said, I'm sure there are auction houses that may not allow this. But many do. No one is going to go in planning on buying there own car, but if they misjudged the audience it is a better prospect than losing your a**.

If I'm the owner of the car, the price stalls, and I don't want it to go for a fraction of what it's worth, I'm not bidding to artificially inflate the price, I'm bidding to buy it so I only lose 20% instead of 40%. Some states have laws about shill bidding, but to prove that the intent was to artificially inflate the price vs. the intent of buying it to avoid a loss would be nearly impossible to prove.

The auction house isn't going to care because they are getting their cut no matter what. By definition, the owner can't be a "shill" because the auction house has already vetted them and know that he is the owner. This isn't like an online auction where anonymity could be used to more easily hide the identity of a bidder.

In short, it may not be allowed at every auction...but it isn't shill bidding by definition.

Clearly I’m not talking about eBay or any other online auction site and I don’t know where you got that idea. As I wrote prior, I’m talking about the big auction houses. Ie..Barrett Jackson or Mecum for example. Raise your own bid and you’re a fraud....a cheat and these auctions have been sued in the past for this and I can tell you it is NOT tolerated in any way. You can type till your fingers are numb and nothing will change. Go ahead and believe what you want. I’ve sold at auctions and I can tell you I wouldn’t get caught dead bidding on my own car under any circumstance because it not allowed and you will get caught. But go right ahead..... you’ll be tossed. And I don’t care if you say “my friend did it”. That’s BS ok! At BJ you’ll also immediately forfeit your $9000 bidder hold among other leagal perils and punitive measures. These places will not tollerate a cheap *** looser cheater putting a stain on their business because they dont need to. And those are the facts my friend.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

[QUOTE=Kevszr1;291121]

Originally Posted by spork2367

Clearly I’m not talking about eBay or any other online auction site and I don’t know where you got that idea. As I wrote prior, I’m talking about the big auction houses. Ie..Barrett Jackson or Mecum for example. Raise your own bid and you’re a fraud....a cheat and these auctions have been sued in the past for this and I can tell you it is NOT tolerated in any way. You can type till your fingers are numb and nothing will change. Go ahead and believe what you want. I’ve sold at auctions and I can tell you I wouldn’t get caught dead bidding on my own car under any circumstance because it not allowed and you will get caught. But go right ahead..... you’ll be tossed. And I don’t care if you say “my friend did it”. That’s BS ok! At BJ you’ll also immediately forfeit your $9000 bidder hold among other leagal perils and punitive measures. These places will not tollerate a cheap *** looser cheater putting a stain on their business because they dont need to. And those are the facts my friend.

Don't sugarcoat it now, tell us how you really feel!


You are also most welcome to believe what you want.


Just another silly path we seem to be going down, as none of us would care to do it anyway, so it matters not.


You may calm down now, you declared yourself the winner, so you win!


Marty

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Enough of this already.

[KILLSHOTS]

Here's the car now. On eBay at some dealer in Colorado. They don't understand the real-world value and it's way overpriced...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-Chevro...YAAOSwW3xcmm80