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ZR1Net: parts development program????
Just running this up the flagpole...and based upon the infighting its probably a bad idea. But, what if the members of the ZR1.net would choose a key essential product to develop every year or two or three...using the $ from memberships,etc
Members could nominate and vote on the product via survey monkey, etc.... The product would be something hard to find, maybe cost prohibitive for any one person to develop; used by many.. Chain tensioners Piston Rings Chain tensioner covers Cams Valves Valve Springs ECMS or ther electronics Upon development of the product, the Registry could either retain the rights and sell them or possibly sell the developed product to someome for distribution. Just a thought..... |
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This may have been suggested before...so my bad if this is a rehashed idea:)
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Two thumbs up for your great idea to ensure the legacy / future of The Beast.
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Its proabably pie in the sky thinking, and maybe the lack of parts will drive higher market values....cars might become unserviceable due to cost and people will begin to sit cars with issues, eventually leading to parting them out.....like I have said before...you will not be able to create a "ZR-1" Clone......ever other car can be simulated, L88s, etc....the LT-5 cannot be copied with the DOHC and intake, etc
Getting ahead of the curve before things get costly seems like a good idea. |
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DIS module would be a great start
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Absolutely fantastic idea!!!
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I think you have a very legitimate idea.
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Sounds like a good use of my money.
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We all use your money!! :( |
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great idea, hard to execute under current directlion of the club.
R&D is big money, and the returns are tough to gain. but as a non-profit corp, as long as it can be "fully costed out" and priced to break even, it sure could work and it's a fantastic idea. I think another approach is to stimulate vendors through free advertising on the site and newsletter and ramping up the "group buys" if a vendor knows he can at least break even through a group buy, the incentive to develop a product is out there. as long as there is demand, and a market, there will be a supplier. problem is, organizing a demand enough to encourage the supplier as for me, I'm saving up for that 3D metal printer!! look at "stupid" parts like the thermostat housing bringing 400+ sheesh, give me some sheet alum and a tig, and call it a day. or better still have carter whittle it from billet. thanks for suggesting this! it's a great topic, now see what response you get :confused: |
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Could this stuff be available in the store. Then the forum could buy some and make it worth the manufacturers while by buying more than 1 at a time.
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Interesting idea. Can't imagine how it would work ($$$), but worth exploring.
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It wouldn't always work perfect, ie. leftovers, but with common sense it would work well. |
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Chain tensioners Piston Rings Chain tensioner covers I am not sure what this is...the outer cylinder of the chain tensioners are steel and I have never heard of one needing replacement Cams Valves Valve Springs ECMS or other electronics Jerry and Limey are already selling valves, valve springs, and chain tensioners. Pete is already grinding Cams. Carter I am sure can make all sorts of Covers out of Billet Aluminum. And I have found very nice Billet Aluminum Oil Fill Caps and Belt Tensioner Pulleys already on Ebay and build the Tow Bar Adapters myself. Craig has proposed a group buy on Billet Aluminum Alternator Housings. Z51JEFF is in the process of building Door Sill Protectors. Marc is making all sorts of Misc items. ZFdoc is making the C4 Beam Plates. And you have made yourself the MAP Covers. Along these lines.....maybe a list of who is doing what now would be helpfull. I doubt anyone will start making FX3 Actuators, Vacuum Canisters, Vacuum pumps for examples. Jerry is Making all sorts of gaskets, and even has available the NEW Secondary Linkages. Polo-1 (Kevin) and Corvettenutz (Ted) for Example are providing all sorts of parts including DIS and ECMs and all sorts of engine parts including complete Heads, and Suspension Parts including the the Bilstein Shocks and FX3 Actuators from Salvaged Parts ZR-1s about as fast as the existing failures of those parts. 91zrocket and others have provided complete ZR-1s and complete LT5s for Part Out recently. This discussion so far does not account for the Parts Hoarders like myself who have on the Parts Shelves Spares for Everything :D Post 44 - Parts It is hard to imagine the development/manufacturing costs of an ECM or DIS would be less than the current Salvage costs. It appears the Salvage ZR-1s and Salvage LT5s are coming up about as fast as these parts fail which failures are rare. Just a little perspective on a great idea ;) Some more Information for ya: SUMMARY Ebay Searches Ebay Aluminum billet oil cap (fits 90' & 91' LT5 & L98) Ebay Corvette Electrical Section 8A Ebay Corvette Ignition Key Ebay radiator Comb Ebay LT5 2902 engine mounts Ebay LT5 2713 engine mounts Ebay LT5 PVC CV913C Ebay LT5 PVC CV769C Ebay LT5 Plug wires Ebay LT5 Service Manual Ebay LT5 Thermostat Ebay LT5 Water pump Ebay Power Antenna Mast Ebay ZR1 Bosch 69225 Fuel Pumps Ebay ZR1 LT5 Ebay ZR1 LT5 Chain Ebay ZR1 LT5 Belt Ebay ZR1 LT5 Bolts Ebay ZR1 LT5 Engine Ebay ZR1 LT5 Gaskets Ebay ZR1 LT5 Plenum Ebay ZR1 LT5 Secondary Ebay ZR1 LT5 Throttle Body Ebay ZR1 Alternator Ebay ZR1 Bose Ebay ZR1 Brake Pads Ebay ZR1 Cat Back Exhaust Ebay ZR1 Clutch Cylinder Ebay ZR1 Coolant Ebay ZR1 Corvette Clutch Ebay ZR1 Radiator Ebay ZR1 Spark Plugs Ebay ZR1 Starter Ebay Autometer 2343 NEW PARTS & SUPPLIES (BY MEMBERS) New Items Designed and Fabricated TIPS Pete's ZR-1 Garage Adams Premium Car Care Haibeck Automotive Technology Jerry's Gaskets White Racing Products Jerry's PCV Connector Carter Bling Copland SS Air Box cvette98pacecar Suede Headliners LGAFF MAP Sensor Cover LGAFF 90-95 emblems LGAFF Tech Guides Pete's Custom Racing Parts Pete's Rebuilt Clutch Pressure Plates rhipsher Reverse Lockout VetteMed Valentine 1 Radar concealed VetteMed Review Mirror with Compass USED PARTS Use of Facebook to find parts Facebook buy, sell, trade parts Buying, selling, trading ZR-1 (LT-5) parts Crags list Corvettenutz Vette2Vette ebay Justcorvette Justcorvettes USED EBAY STORE PARTS eBay store: Corvette Salvage ebay store: Dennys Corvettes eBay store: Nook and Tranny LLC eBay store: Redneck43 Corvette's Store ebay store: slick300zx eBay store: vettepros.usa NEW PARTS Antenna Parts ARP Auto Parts Warehouse DeWitts Radiators DeWitts Home Ecklers Corvette Parts Carolina Clutch Clarks Discount Corvette Central Corvette HID Doug Ripple Motor Sports Guldstrand Racing Mid America Power Torque Systems Randy Woods RC Injectors Ron Davis Radiators SAMCO hoses Stainless Works Ebay ZR1 SKF BR930024 Rear Wheel Hub & Bearing REPAIRS Marc Haibeck (Performance) Pete's ZR-1 Garage Doc Don's (Radio) ZF Doc (Transmission) Gordon Killebrew C4 trouble shooting Rebuilt water pump TurnOne (Power Steering) |
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No doubt about it Lee, good idea..
There's a lot of talk we could have now about which nut and which bolt needs to be fabricated (details) but it might be a good idea to develop a business plan for the idea. Seems we have at least one in the group with business plan development experience. The sequence of what happens in what order and when/if/how folks are re-numerated for their efforts etc. For instance let's say I come up with a DIS equivalent. Maybe I get "in store credit" of such and such an amount I could use toward buying an improved glass top that Don came up with and leave the rest of the balance in an "account" of sorts. Once these understandings are in place there might be many who would step up. Maybe we could self organize into teams. |
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Lee, this thread can be converted into a Poll.
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Not my website.....so I will let the powers that be think that one over.
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Simply go to your original post and click "Thread Tools" then look for the "Add Poll" then enter in a list of possible selections that you can think of. Or I suppose you could wait for someone else to start a new thread with the poll. |
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Well???? :D
I do know that the development process is expensive and will take many iterations to develop an item that at most has very limited sales potential.....and that applies to ALL and ANY LT5 or ZR-1 part. After you have an item developed (assuming you have permission from original developers) you face very stiff competition from those involved in Salvage of ZR-1s. Just Saying :handshak: Quote:
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I think there is a difference between engineering a part from scratch and then there is recreating a part or reverse engineering.....and maybe its simply just looking into the a rebuilder.
For the DIS for example we might have a technical steering commitee look at our options... *Develop a team with in depth knowledge of the part a)Who made the original part b)Are the schematics availble?(call OEs) c)What other resources might be available **For example historic F1 car rebuilders, who do they go to for one off electroincs, etc....low production *Assess the feasibility of a rebuild service or manufacturing a)Call well know builders(Wells, etc) b)Review overseas options Its as much about pooling resources as it is R&D and $$$ |
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Speaking purely for myself, I think that this is a great idea and one that is very much inline with the goals of the Registry. Would it be useful for the board to help coordinate efforts? Or perhaps the Registry could provide some "Seed" money to kick things off?
I don't have much in the way of engineering skills but I'd be happy to help out and support any efforts. Dave |
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I think that the idea has merit.
I would be interested in hearing from Ron Hanselman and Jerry Downey. Ron is in the final stages of design and build of a replacement ECM. Jerry has a lot of experience in funding redesign and produce gaskets and othe engine parts. For complex parts like the DIS module, I think that the best method would be to find a supplier/vendor who produces similar products and "encourage" them to make the part for us. That way the Registry members do not have to become design engineers. Jim |
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Yes...Jerry is DA MAN on developing Gaskets and other items and he knows about the challenges of prototyping and testing :handshak: But seems to me one would have to have a "Handle" on the potential Market (Total Market including what is already available and what continues to become available in Salvage) ;) And a Pricing Target related to current Salvage pricing. And you may be talking (since this is "development" or Reverse Engineering) maybe fixing some issues or adding to existing capability of the components developed. |
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would be nice to see what the board has to say about this
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Oversimplified, but here is how it might flow:
Parts development team reporting to the board Development Core team: 1 Board Member 1-3 people w/Technical or engineering knowledge a)Product testing and development 1 Financial/Accounting background a. Develops cost/Return projections 1 Marketing/Communication a. Communicates to members board b. Develops sales strategy Process 1)Needs Assessment: Identify key Deliverables Survey of members Discussion with industry experts Identify part or service to be developed Seek approval through board Ratify with members 2) Procurement: Assessment of what services are needed and what vendors are capable of the task, along with financial estimatie of project cost Utilizing a standardized process, vendors are interviewed and outline of cost developed; including vendor risk assessment 3) Financial Request Team presents findings to board and proposes a product or service with budget and cost and or return *Cost of production/Service *Distribution Plan Board approves project and or rejects or sends to members for approval Updates delivered via the newsletter 4)Technical Testing: Technical experts conduct testing as needed Testing reviewed with board/Shared with members 5)Implementation/Production Plan Developed |
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You know who you need as a technical advisor on this is Graham Behan
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Graham's involvement with Lingenfelter may be an obstacle, but I agree that his involvement would be invaluable.
Dave |
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getting together a "parts locator" and helping members find whatever is needed is an ez start.
more is available than you think, like the prev post shows, alot it out there. carter can whittle just about anything, and with 3d printing technology, digitizing and existing "good part" goes a long way towards making molds, castings, or limited runs. if I'm not mistaken, there is a 3d metal printing technology that can stitch weld powdered metal, and callaway/audi/lambo guys are working on powdered carbon fiber technology that can be 3d printed. like to see main bearings (thrust bearing is a bugger) kurt white had them made up new cams (pete does regrinds) billet heads. nelson racing has done heads and block cheaper stroker and mini stroker offset grinds oil pumps, timing chains, various "hard parts" unique to lt5 engine rest is pretty much c4 stuff and available for the body molds for rear bumper cap (make one off a "good rear bumper") rear quarters, door skins 49th street rockers 2" high rise hood (carbon fiber optional) also like to see a cheaper auto conversion option for us turbo guys (turbos and autos work SOOOOO well together) as long as their is a demand, and manufacturing levels can be made through "group buys" costs can be reasonable. what the registry SHOULD NOT do 1. stock parts (club is not a warehouse, make them on demand or goup buys) 2. invest in too much R&D (coordinate with suppliers for that) 3. get into making money off parts (we are a non profit, lets keep it that way) there are quite a few business "issues" with going this direction and you will be stretching the good will of the volunteer board member resources pretty thin (again, ask me how I know!!) very solid idea, we gotta keep the beast alive target the "show stopper" parts that keep the car off the road (those currently made out of unobtanium) :o |
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Yeap,this was brought up by me to Ron Kreigh when he was President and explained to me the way he just explained it and he does have a point.
I think this could be done with a few members getting together and doing it and just ask the members to cover cost. Basicly lets say we decide to make oil pumps get the cost to make these So lets say cost is $5000 divide this by 500 members $10 each, now we have oil pumps etc,. Chain tensioners do not need to be as complicated as the factory made them need the spring and a small check valve I can get into it more if this becomes a hit. Pete |
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Of those 500 members, how many have an interest in doing major LT5 Modifications and/or Repairs :dontknow: On the other hand.....Marc, Pete, and Jerry would know how many of what parts they are in need of most of the time and what parts are hard to come by. So....what parts fail and how often and what are the "work arounds" if parts are not available? I think I am having a discussion with myself :sign10: |
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I agree Pete, its like PBS....you want to watch the frog and a bunch of boring highbrow shows you gotta pay up; same here.... maybe we just try one part....don't even need to spend any money. Do the due diligence and see were it takes us...at some point we will benefit....and lets face it stuff is not going to get cheaper.
Brainstorming and sharing resources can get you places.... I cannot imagine what the hell you would once the DIS are gone, sure they are a good part that does not often fail...but at some point its going to start happening as the parts age. With no DIS, Pete will be sitting in his car in the driveway; making motor sounds and reliving his 129MPH pass; you can give Pete that DIS for the price of a cup of coffee each day....Starkbucks Coffee, not the cheap stuff... |
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There is actually a guy here in my town that supplies parts for Delorean's....while they from having a ton of overstock....he might be able to give a hint on electronic parts.....
or Worst case, we jump in one of his cars, travel back to 1990 and order all the LT-5 parts.... |
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The DIS is sensitive to heat and if installed without the correct grease it will overheat and fail Tyler Townsley says he has 3 dead DIS modules and if we could get a rebuild capability it would sure help those who discover the hard way that the correct grease matters. Now we have another option.......Develope the Registry Rebuild Capability :p Water Pumps, ECMs, Heads, Oil Pumps (I think), Chain Tensioners (reset), Alternators, Starters, Belt Tensioners, Injectors, FX3 Actuators, Even Lifters.........All can be rebuilt......and are being rebuilt as we speak (I am not sure if DIS is now on that list of being rebuildable). Limey will even rebuild in exchange your LT5 ;) I think Limey in the worst case, jumped in one of his cars, traveled back to 1990 and bought all the LT-5 parts :sign10: |
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always a work around, the DIS craps out, put in a megasquirt and go with individual coils better spark, engine management control we could start with the thermostat housing. be ez to weld one up. a 400 part like that just frosts my (*&^Ss next time a zr1oner needs one, take of the old part and see how hard it would be to fab or fix it. but I agree the DIS is an "achilles heel" and when a part made out of unobtanium goes bad, you either have to engineer around the problem, scrounge a used one, or sit and stew. I'll always pick 1 or 2 and often 1 if I think I can do it better with a more modern solution certainly engine management is one area I think we can make BIG improvements. full tune on the fly with dual widebands and a computer that "auto corrects" the tune and has built in failsafes to save the engine in the event of knock, loss of oil pressure, overheating, ect.... is worth the price of admission. my LSV 390 cost Larry 36k (at least that's what the receipt says) and wasting that bullet is beyond my humble feduciary means if it breaks, it will likely sit a while. lt5 is an expensive "part" and worth protecting and keeping on the road. the "unfortunate" part of this little problem is as mentioned, the LT5 is so reliable that not too many people wear them out. I'm doing my best and will fire up the beast pretty soon and flog it on the way to work. it's a bit masochistic and enjoys a good beating:-D |
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this sounds like a great idea.
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I started work on a searchable "parts locator" page on the website. The problem I ran into is that it's very time consuming adding in all the parts information (obviously there are thousands). I could set something simpler up that didn't validate things like part numbers etc. so it would rely on people entering the parts information accurately. Would that be useful enough?
Dave |
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Sure, its a start
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I'll start work on it again.
Dave |
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